Aim and Called Shot with psychic attacks?

By seanpp, in Dark Heresy Second Edition Beta

1)

The question my group across over the weekend was, can psychic attacks of a physical nature (bolt of bio-electricity, for example) be used with the Aim and Called Shot Actions?

In Version 1 it specifically stated that Aim could be used with Melee or Ranged attacks. It doesn't mention psychic attacks (though one could interpret a bio-electricity attack as ranged, I supposed, but I don't tend to think of it that way). Given that omission I would take that to mean it could not be used with psyker attacks. However, in Version 2 Beta it just says you can use Aim with attacks.

Same question with Called Shot. Hard to imagine why you'd be able to Aim but not aim for a particular body part. For the purposes of this question, these two actions would seem to need the same answer.

My take on it: I don't think either version is definitive on the answer to this. However, I don't view psychic attacks as falling technically under "ranged attacks" - I see them falling under "psychic attacks". Therefore, I would read the Version-1 Aim rule as not allowing Aim with psychic attacks (and therefore no Called Shot either).

However, Verison-2 rule for Aim just says it can be used for attacks. My preference is to not allow Aim/Called Shot for psychic attacks, like I view Version-1 intending...but perhaps that's not FFG's intention for this version?

2)

Another unrelated question: any reason a Reload action couldn't be begun on the 4th Action Point of a PCs turn? Say a given weapon needed 4 Action Points to reload. The PC spends his first 3 Action Points of his turn on whatever and then begins to Reload on his 4th Action Point. So therefore he'd be done reloading on Action Point 3 of his next turn, which would be 4 consecutive Action Points. Now, the rules are clear that he cannot be interrupted in this Extended Action or else all progress is lost. But I don't see any restriction on when he can begin that Extended Action - does anyone else?

On 2) This has to be the case, as there are some weapons with a reload cost of greater than 4 AP.

On 1) I saw the same issue. Personally, I think the intent is to have the vocabulary of the rules broad enough to allow this, and I don't see any serious issues with it.

On 2) This has to be the case, as there are some weapons with a reload cost of greater than 4 AP.

On 1) I saw the same issue. Personally, I think the intent is to have the vocabulary of the rules broad enough to allow this, and I don't see any serious issues with it.

Regarding your reload response, I hear you KommissarK, but there was some question among my players about whether an Extended Action had to be begun on Action Point 1 of a character's turn.

On 2) This has to be the case, as there are some weapons with a reload cost of greater than 4 AP.

On 1) I saw the same issue. Personally, I think the intent is to have the vocabulary of the rules broad enough to allow this, and I don't see any serious issues with it.

Regarding your reload response, I hear you KommissarK, but there was some question among my players about whether an Extended Action had to be begun on Action Point 1 of a character's turn.

"A character can only begin extended actions on his turn...Extended actions are initiated on the character's turn, and are the only type of action that can be undertaken across multiple rounds." p.197

In that paragraph, I see no wording that forces the an extended action to only be initiated by the first AP spent on a turn. Just that it can only be started during a players turn. Most likely the wording present is there to prevent gaming the system with regards to start of turn/end of turn behaviour and the completion of the extended task.

Edited by KommissarK

On 1)

Aim (and Called Shot) work on an attack, Psy power use Focus Power Attack Test and even mentions on page 172 that you 'make an attack as outlined in Chapter VII: combat...'

I would say that you are able to use these with Psy powers, even those of a non-physical nature.

Basically you are taking a little more time to take the local Warp variations into account when directing your attacks. Makes perfect sense to me. Especially since we lost the possibility for Invocation to improve our chances of success.

On 1)

Aim (and Called Shot) work on an attack, Psy power use Focus Power Attack Test and even mentions on page 172 that you 'make an attack as outlined in Chapter VII: combat...'

I would say that you are able to use these with Psy powers, even those of a non-physical nature.

Basically you are taking a little more time to take the local Warp variations into account when directing your attacks. Makes perfect sense to me. Especially since we lost the possibility for Invocation to improve our chances of success.

Very good points Kelemvorus. I hadn't considered the loss of Invocation in the context of this question.

I thought the loss of Invocation a pity for multiple reasons, now including this one. Invocation (and using a psy-foci) is much more flavorful & the narrative much more robust than simply throwing Focus Power Attacks modifiers into the "Aim" and "Called Shot" folders. It would seem there should be a substantial difference between trying to concentrate to control the wily dangerous ebbings of the warp in the middle of a hot, noisy, dangerous combat versus a safe quiet room (or at least the psyker trying to pretend he was in the latter when, in fact, he was in the former). Invocation substantially contributed to that difference - and, of course, wasn't limited to focus power "attacks". It's something I'm including in my beta feedback.

In the interest of continuing a good topic, let me offer a counterpoint. Psykers indeed lost the potential positive modifier of Invocation, but the 1e structure of the best powers tending to be difficult - some very difficult - to manifest has largely been lost as well. Some 2e powers have negative modifiers to their Tests to manifest but nothing like some of the 1e powers with, say, 20+, or even 25+, Thresholds.