First, i dont want to restart the whole balance discussion, I know there are several threads about this already, but my question is still somewhat related to this.

I own the 1rst edition of the game + Clash of king extension. I like the game, unfortunately, I only played 4 games because my good friend who play with me doesn’t like it. Now we have a new gaming group (the couple we where playing with moved to Europe), but every time I am about to convince the others to try Agot, my friend destroy my efforts with negative comments. Its frustrating. So I have not played enough to comment on the rules or balance issue anyway, but I am still concerns from the very huge amount of comments on balance on all forum (ffg, boardgame geeks, and others), especially if i want the first GOT game experience with my group to be good. In each forum, there are 5-6 threads about balance on the subject of the Lannister and/or on the 4 players setup. Honestly, if it was one or two post, I would disregard and say “its players who don’t understand the game”. But it’s a lot of post with 75%-80% of interventions saying there are balance problems. And the ones defending that there are no balance issue use arguments that involve knowing well the game to know what should be done when. But for me, a well designed game can be throwned to 4 unexperienced players and they will all stand a equal chance without knowing the scenario. If it take a game to say "hey, this house have a edge due to his map position, lets adapt ourselves", then its not a good game design for me. After all, when you play the game of throne, there is only one chance to win according to Cercei . And these arguments always involve specific stragegy : create alliance to stop Baratheon and having Stark, Lannisters and Greyjoy do specific things. This way of thinking a game was acceptable with pioneers board games in the 80’s like Axis and Allies, but for 2 ^nd edition of a modern board game, its not acceptable. You have to be able to have a less deterministic way to deal with game balance other than knowing well the game and following specific alliance patterns.

I want to believe (Fox Mulder, get out of me) in this game. I like the concept. I so like it and I so want the next gaming experience to be perfect, that even if I went back to school and have very limited budget, even if I owned a underused copy of the first edition, I was ready to spill the 60$ to buy the 2 ^nd edition hoping the game would be improved, even slithly. But then, I read and I read all these comments about 4 players setup (wich is my gaming group average. We are 5, but there is always 1 person who cant make it).

So here is my question: with all these comments that run since 2011, have FFG designer made any comments? Whether its to defend their game and explain their design or to acknowledge a flaw and propose solution, are they any “official” answer ? I have to say FFG have excellent customer service for their products. When I bought my 1rst edition, I had some white troups missing in my box. Within a week after my email to them, I received the missing components in Montreal, Canada. Similar thing happened with my Warrior Knight game, I had 4 identical black knight instead of 4 different and within a week, bam my problem was solved. Very recommendable customer service here for the after sale on the material. But what about the other content, the game design ? Any official answer already posted, or can we expect one ?

I really want to spend 60$ to rebuy this game, but my voice of reason tell me to listen to the very numerous comments about game mechanics unless somebody at FFG comment on this.

nb : i read all the house rules propositions, but my head spin everytime with the "block this area but not this one" and "switch this house for this house". House rules that are too complex kill a game. I want to know that FFG have a though and playtested a elegant and simple solution.

I would add something from experiences me and my friends made with the Game.(1st and 2nd edition, in my opinion 2nd is more balanced)

Why does your good friend negotiate your attempt to get new players to the game?Because it is unbalanced?

Talk to him and try to convince him to play another round and also talk to your friends who should with you, because sure it is not as balanced with 4 players than with 5 or 6 but only with this reason the game is not a bad, for me its the best game i have ever played, but depends on the players.

Also every house has an own way to win, and eyery house has his own strategy, and only one can win, as you said: When you play the Game of Throne you win or you die, there is no middle way.

I think FFG hasnt made a suggestion but as far as i would say, i think the game is balanced enough(in my opinion, except the 4-player variant in 2nd edition), also your new players should not turn away from AGoT, show them the good and the bad sides of each house, every house can win but you need a bit time to know how. Also often the new players do not understand all of the game and then they dislike it, in this point you are right , but it is not a reason to dislike, then your friends have to ask or read instructions to understand all.

So i would not say that FFG needs to give a solution.

Greetings MakoCLoud

Thank you for your input. I will try to hook my friends up with my copy of the 1rst edition and then if it work, i will consider buying the newest edition. I have the COK extension. If the storm of sword extension with the cool claim system and with the balanced 4 player map was still available, i would probably go for this instead of buying the 2nd edition, but unfortunatly, its now a "collector" item sold close to 200$ on Amazon or Ebay.

As for reaction from FFG, like i said, i cant comment as i havent played the 2nd edition. You may be right, maybe they dont have to say or do anything, Maybe the game is good enough as it is. I dont know. Its just that there are so many comments and critics on the 4 players setup on different boards, its not a isolated phenomena (unelss one person have time to impersonnate different users on boards), that i thought it was worth for them to take a look at this. I mean, Microsoft took notice of the numerous critics on forum about their x-box one features and they adapted themselves (ok, thats not a cool comparison. FFG is lot more oriented toward their players than MS. I was trying to point how some marketing keep close interest to forum and boards, but i respect FFG a lot more than MS. Not the best of examples on my part).

Yeah the Support from FFG is very good, you should buy the second edition because you can play it with max. 6 Players, and yes the only bad thing is the 4-Player variant, maybe you know other people or you can to a FFG retailer store in your area, maybe he knows something that can help you.

But i would really recommend you to buy the 2nd edition, in this forum not so many have played the 1st edition.

Also when you got your 2nd edition you can buy the Feast for Crows POD, with it you can play a better 4 player scenario.

Greetings

The 1rst edition too made it possible to play at 6 with the Clash of king extention (wich i have), and i just compared both maps (1rst and 2nd) and they are identical in every way (with the COK overlay on the south region added in the 1rst edition). So maybe they changed something in the setup. But anyway, my problem is not with being able to play at 6, its with being able to play with 4 as this is the number of players my group have. And i hate scenario/secret objectives type of play, so the Feast for crow is not for me. I want to play the real thing with 4 players. And also, for now the extension is only in english and being from Montreal in Canada, i have 2 friends who cant read english, so they would not even be able to understand their objectives cards, so this option is not even available until they translate.

But i think i solved my problem. I just found a remaining storm of swords extension on sale half price for 30$ (in a small less known store who did not even seem to know what a precious thing they had). I decided to buy this this instead of the 2nd edition. The Storm of sword supplement come with a 4 player map that is appreantly well balanced (although, they removed the boats for this map). According to several poeple i spoke on Board game geek, the 1rst edition with its extensions is better than the 2nd. I like the claims system that add more depth. From what i read, only one thing is completly new on the 2nd edition and its the tide of battle cards for wich i have no interest as i hate adding luck to that kind of game. The rest are minor changes (the widling cards are slightly different, the house cards also, and the consolidate power can do a welcom mustering in the 2nd ed). The other thing they did with 2nd ed. is combine chosen rules from extensions, but now i own all extension. So buying 2nd edition instead of just the 1rst edition base box is much better, but when you have 1rst edition extensions, the choice become harder.

So my dilemna is solved, but i still find that when a subject come back that often on forums, it should be officially adressed.

Have nice war people. Now i will have to convince my group to let go the focus they have on Eclipse and Cyclade to really try AGOT board game.

so then Good Luck