I've been playing RPGs for 30 years, and in almost every game I've ever played we've done experience points at the end of every session. Your mileage may vary.

I've only been doing it for 10 years, but I'm in the same boat, 99.9% of them awarded XP at the end of each session.

I'm not sure which games might be being referred to when the XP is only given out at the end of an adventure

Lets see - off the top of my head: Star Wars (both D6 and D20), Ghostbusters (both editions), Paranoia, Hero, Toon, the old FASA Dr Who game, Gurps and probably a couple more I've forgotten about over the years. In all that time, I've never seen it advised to pay the characters in the middle of a story.

***edit***

Just for fun, I grabbed that old red box AD&D that's been on my shelf since 1981 - you know, the one where you had to fill the dice in with a crayon to be able to read the numbers - and even there, it says in the section "ending the adventure" that you hand out the XP after the game (well, the wording is a little vague since an adventure meant "Go kill as much stuff as you can until the DM gets bored" and not a linear series of events that culminates in a climax to a story).

This thread got me curious, I had to go pull my old West End Star Wars books off the shelf. They do say you should give out experience at the end of an adventure, not session. They suggest that if it's a particularly extended adventure, you miight want to give out rewards part way through. In the case of the current thread though, this will be a 2 to 3 session adventure max, so that's really not necessary.

As the person the OP was originally speaking about (I guess I had on my rules lawyering hat) when you get down to it, I really don't care. As long as we all get our expereince in the end I'm happy. It can be nice getting them incrementally, just because the little constant boosts are fun and let you constantly shape your character, or count up exp to that new talent you want. Getting them all at the end can also be fun, as you can spend it all in one hedonistic glut of new coolness.

Reading all these posts, no one has said they actually checked p301.

I did it just now. The book is infront of me.

No wheres does it say or even imply giving out XP mid session. OP's players are twisting the words VERY hard.

The FIRST LINE IN "Awarding Experience Points" reads:

"The GM should award experience points after ev-

ery session."

Notice how I broke up 'every'? That's because that's how it's even done in the book because of the picture on the page.

It does mention 5XP bonus for reaching key milstones or finishing story arcs, but this doesn't mean that just because you get to those points mid session that they 5XP is to immediately be given; see the paragraph's first sentence (that I've quoted even quoted here)

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session. QED

/thread

I think everyone should award XP based on their own circumstances.

As an example, me and my group can only get together once every 2 to 4 weeks, and even then the session last from 8pm to 10pm (we get up at 5am each morning for work).

Also factoring in that I run the sessions and I have a notoriously short attention span. I run out of adventure ideas real quick and so we flit from one RP game to the next.

As such, for my players to feel that their characters are improving in the short time we play, I tend to hand out more XP than normal. When I get to running this game (just started a Werewolf Apocalypse 20th Anniversary game, plus we paused that game last session to play both the King of Tokyo and Smash Up board/card games. This session I bet we'll end up playing Pandemic or Smallworld... geez). I'll probably be handing out 20 XP per 2-hour session, plus bonuses*

*As there can sometimes be such a long gap between our little get-togethers, for many years now I spend the first 5 minutes asking the players to recap what happened last time. For each correct answer they would earn 5 XP (in this game at least).

Reading all these posts, no one has said they actually checked p301.

I did it just now. The book is infront of me.

No wheres does it say or even imply giving out XP mid session. OP's players are twisting the words VERY hard.

The FIRST LINE IN "Awarding Experience Points" reads:

"The GM should award experience points after ev-

ery session."

Notice how I broke up 'every'? That's because that's how it's even done in the book because of the picture on the page.

It does mention 5XP bonus for reaching key milstones or finishing story arcs, but this doesn't mean that just because you get to those points mid session that they 5XP is to immediately be given; see the paragraph's first sentence (that I've quoted even quoted here)

To further back this up, the two published adventures (in the core rulebook and GM Kit) both indicate giving out XP at the end of a session, and not during.

And I'm thinking how very odd - I've been gaming for years, and this is the first time I've ever seen where the players get paid in the middle of a story arc. At the very least, handing out 10-ish experience points a week, doesn't it dramatically shorten the campaign's shelf life?

You're not the only one, but it really isn't that unusual to hand out XP at end of session, story done or not, in the majority of games.

I've always handed out XP in most games that use them every session, sometimes at start of downtime in mid-session as well, since the 80's.

Reading all these posts, no one has said they actually checked p301.

I did it just now. The book is infront of me.

No wheres does it say or even imply giving out XP mid session. OP's players are twisting the words VERY hard.

The FIRST LINE IN "Awarding Experience Points" reads:

"The GM should award experience points after ev-

ery session."

Notice how I broke up 'every'? That's because that's how it's even done in the book because of the picture on the page.

It does mention 5XP bonus for reaching key milstones or finishing story arcs, but this doesn't mean that just because you get to those points mid session that they 5XP is to immediately be given; see the paragraph's first sentence (that I've quoted even quoted here)

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session. QED

/thread

Reading is FUNdamental! Or fundaMENTAL.

Reading all these posts, no one has said they actually checked p301.

I did it just now. The book is infront of me.

No wheres does it say or even imply giving out XP mid session. OP's players are twisting the words VERY hard.

The FIRST LINE IN "Awarding Experience Points" reads:

"The GM should award experience points after ev-

ery session."

Notice how I broke up 'every'? That's because that's how it's even done in the book because of the picture on the page.

It does mention 5XP bonus for reaching key milstones or finishing story arcs, but this doesn't mean that just because you get to those points mid session that they 5XP is to immediately be given; see the paragraph's first sentence (that I've quoted even quoted here)

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session. QED

/thread

While I haven't read every single post in the thread, I don't think anybody is in denial of what the rules state. It is just whether or not you prefer giving out exp at the end of the session vs waiting until the whole adventure arc is done.

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session

For someone so keen on looking things up and quoting them, you might want to check out the OP again....

Reading all these posts, no one has said they actually checked p301.

I did it just now. The book is infront of me.

No wheres does it say or even imply giving out XP mid session. OP's players are twisting the words VERY hard.

The FIRST LINE IN "Awarding Experience Points" reads:

"The GM should award experience points after ev-

ery session."

Notice how I broke up 'every'? That's because that's how it's even done in the book because of the picture on the page.

It does mention 5XP bonus for reaching key milstones or finishing story arcs, but this doesn't mean that just because you get to those points mid session that they 5XP is to immediately be given; see the paragraph's first sentence (that I've quoted even quoted here)

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session. QED

/thread

It was not mid session. It was at the end of a session, but was mid adventure. Nobody was trying to get extra exp. it was just a matter of when they should be awarded.

While I haven't read every single post in the thread, I don't think anybody is in denial of what the rules state. It is just whether or not you prefer giving out exp at the end of the session vs waiting until the whole adventure arc is done.

There are times when my sandbox style doesn't really break down into neatly contained adventures. Sometime multiple strings are twisted together, some coming to and end while others are still spinning out and new strings tangling their way in too. With this in mind, I always go for session awards since end-of-adventure awards are hard to nail down.

Book says it simple and plain, doesn't hint otherwise; therefore OP's group grossly twisted words for their benefit to get more XP both mid and ending of session.

Actually no they didn't - we had finished for the evening after completing act one. Sure we had two more acts left to go in the story, but we were wrapping up for the night.

While I haven't read every single post in the thread, I don't think anybody is in denial of what the rules state. It is just whether or not you prefer giving out exp at the end of the session vs waiting until the whole adventure arc is done.

Ah, then I grossly misunderstood the question. My apologies. In that case, the distributing of XP depends on the system and how frequently a group plays.

In level based systems, like Dungeons and Dragons, multiple sessions (ie/ story arcs) are easily gone before a reward is received, such as a level up. In this case, the experience points between levels can be arbitrary and given at all at once upon completion, or given in little bits to show PCs are slowly getting closer to their end reward. It's like a progress bar, if you see it or not, you still will reach the end at the same time. Each bit of progress is an exact amount for each character, each getting a set amount of skills, HP and feats. Progress is linear for everyone.

Edge of the Empire is a different beast, character progression is micro-managed. Spending your reward XP on one thing excludes you from spending it on another thing. PC1 can spend 5XP on a skill while PC2 spends 5XP on a tier 1 talent while PC3 saves his 5XP until he gets 5 more so it can be spent on a tier 2 talent. The progression a character makes is completely up to the PC, but they can only do so much at a time.

And that is the reason why the book suggests XP at the end of each session. If a player is hoping to race to the bottom of a talent tree, that's 75 XP for only 5 talents, which between 8 sessions if using only 10XP per session to 4 Sessions with 20XP (and that last talent costs 25 XP, that's 2 or 3 sessions with no progress at all); in that time another player could have bought 9 talents if they bought all 4 tier one (5XP x4=20), all 4 tier two (10XP x4=40) and still have 15XP for their choice of 1 tier three. The first session alone, they could get 2 talents if given 10XP or 4 talents if given 20XP. This then slows to 1 talent per session while player1 is waiting 2-3 sessions without any progress at times.

I refuse to do any math for possible skills, but increasing skills better your dice rolls, and you mix this WHILE also buying talents.

So this is why Edge of the Empire suggests every session gets XP with Bonus XP on top of that, because of exclusions while micro managing of the character progression.

Everyone here makes excellent cases for both sides of the argument. My policy of giving out XP after each session is mostly founded in how it makes the players feel. I frequently sit on the other side of the screen, so to speak, and receiving some sort of XP reward at the end of the evening feels like you've accomplished something even if you (in a D20-type system, at least) can't do anything with it just yet. It's just that a small chunk of XP at the end makes you feel like you've taken a small step closer to that next level/skill/talent, and that feels nice.

i'm breaking it down, player attendance = 1xp, was the story progressed = 3xp or was the story derailed instead =2xp, did players face a challenge = 2xp or players had nothing challenge them =1xp. Was the game memorable and fun for everyone including the GM? yes =5xp no=0xp.

My players earn from 4xp -12xp pending on the level of fun and play that happens.

I know some games award XP per adventure, which can be 1 session, or as many as 3 or 4 (depending on length of sessions and adventure of course), possibly even longer. I always had a problem with that, because it (like the whole notion of levels really) doesn't really give the impression of gradual change, growing and such in a good way.

I've been generous so far in our campaign, but I'm going to get more stingy in time. I do - sometimes - hand out bonuses, but coming from an egalitarian culture and nation, its bad form to give one person a boost and not another (I know, I know, its crazy speak!), so I hand out bonuses based on the whole groups performance, if they played well in-character, followed motivation, did good stuff, performed well... and then that boosts them, on the other hand I remind myself (quietly) if someone performed poorly and against what they can and usually do. This will subtract slightly. Per session I usually hand out 15, I've once given almost 25 xp due to length of session, performance and everything included. It was such a joy that I felt it necessary to award them handsomely

Don't mean to start a fire here....but I consider it bad form to not reward those who go above and beyond while rewarding those who don't.

If John, James, and Mike do excellent roleplaying while Jane sits at her laptop....it's not fair to John, James, and Mike to reward Jane for doing nothing.

It's like grading tests based on a curve. The smarter students will choose not to excell because it doesn't matter if they do well, they're still getting B's because the lazier students did poorly. The lazier students will do even less, thus dragging grades down even further.

There's no incentive to do better, because the ones who don't participate know that they don't have to do jack squat while the ones who do feel that they've been cheated out of reward for doing excellent jobs.

It's the same principle on why Communism cannot be a viable economic or societal option (one of the principles, the other is that you will always end up with an autocratic or oligarchic dictatorship....case in point, every communist country that's existed) despite it sounding nice on paper.

Humans, as a whole, crave recognition for what they do, they crave reward. Cheapening that experience by rewarding those who do nothing with the same as those who do everything....I'm sure if you asked your players to speak candidly about it, one-on-one, after you told them how you doled out experience, they'd say the same thing.

Because it's not actually fair to reward those who slack off and ride the coat-tails of those who pull the weight.

And it's the reason why I give XP to my players at the end of each session. There's always a base amount, but people who pull off excellent stunts, or roleplay above and beyond, they get bonuses....be it additional XP....or if it's the Warhammer 40k series, a Fate Point, etc.

And those who get only the base....yeah they've been angry. But when I explain that the reason they didn't get as much as some of the others, they either realize that they need to actively participate and really get into the game in order to get on a level playing field....or they quit because they don't really want to put in the effort.

Now, I'm currently in a Dark Heresy game (it's one I co-DM...we switch off each campaign) where the other DM is holding off giving out experience each session. The reason it works for him is that he takes meticulous notes and has near-perfect recall so he can remember who really put effort into each session and who didn't.

^ I used to run games a lot like that, where I'd give the players who were making more of an effort to roleplay and do character writings and bring props and so forth a little more XP for their effort. The couple of players who were content to show up and play didn't mind not getting as much XP; they just didn't really care either way.

As my group has gained more years and experience, the players and GMs I game with now are all on a pretty similar playing field, so my co-GM and I sort of stopped bothering with extra XP awards and are going with a flat 10 XP per session of an episode with the last session bumped up to 15 XP. We're halfway through our second episode and it's worked out well so far.

We hand out a standard of 25 experience per session, after each session. No extra for motivations or good role-playing, that's BS in our group. If there at least is some downtime between sessions, then we allow the players to spend their experience or if we are in the middle of an clear adventure without downtime between sessions, the players has to wait for some downtime.

An idea I've had in my head for a while now is giving Triumph and Despair based XP. I run an extremely open sandbox game where there are many massive story arcs happening at once. My group only meets for 2 hours a week and have to play the game while dealing with babies (feeding, burping, changing are a must during our sessions or we wouldn't have a group) so things like extra xp for super serious roleplaying isn't a viable option when one member of the group is placating an infant. It seems like quick gains to give out 10 xp per session, many times the group doesn't even accomplish anything story related beyond gathering resources. Note: My group loves side quests, and other random pursuits. Making money, buying/finding better gear, and gaining contacts is common in our sessions even with looming plot points when things aren't pressing they take their time to complete story objectives.

My idea is to keep track of all triumphs and despair that are rolled, either by everyone or just the PCs, in a session, and award 1 xp for each. So basically I would award 1 xp for showing up to a session, then 1 xp per triumph and despair. The group would then be awarded the combined xp at the end of a session. Again just an idea, I will probably test out for a couple weeks to see what levels of experience the rolls may grant. I just think this would be neat because then it rewards PCs for making rolls and giving incentive to be more proactive, so the players that don't roll as often generally aren't contributing to the group as much as those players who roll more often.

So the more rolls you make the more experience you get?

Seems like an awesome way to improve how many rolls are made each session, if that is something someone would want.

I don't get that, but that's only me.

Also it does push the players to buy skill ranks as they give them more experience in return then talents.

So the more rolls you make the more experience you get?

Seems like an awesome way to improve how many rolls are made each session, if that is something someone would want.

I don't get that, but that's only me.

Also it does push the players to buy skill ranks as they give them more experience in return then talents.

Pretty much. I do want to improve how many rolls are made each session, it means the players are invested in their character's actions and following along with the narrative. I'll follow the suggestions in the book that say if something isn't an interesting challenge then let them succeed automatically without rolling.

It does add weight to skills, that is true. But there are many talents that upgrade checks as well as making new specializations all the more juicy since gaining four additional career skills will make things cheaper over all.

Also, I am considering supplementing the triumph and despair xp with destiny point xp. Each light side destiny point spent grants 1 xp to the group for the session. My players are notorious at not spending mechanic points like destiny points. In our last couple of adventures we ran a super hero system that granted each player "Hero points", which do basically what destiny points do, I gave out one hero point at the end of each session to each of my players. Out of 10 sessions, one player had spent one hero point. To increase the appeal of using the points, the next adventure we ran in the system, I told my group that as soon as you spend a hero point it becomes an experience point and it worked wonders. Most of my players spent all except one in a matter of two sessions, and kept one as a back up "just in case" type of point. It made me happy that the group was finally using their resources. I had tried other methods, even reminding them as something bad happened that they had the points available. Most of my PCs were complacent with negative results, and would rather "see where it goes."

If you're wondering how I am going to curb the abuse of overusing light side points, I explain over in my House Rules thread that instead of light side point flipping to a dark side point and conversely. The destiny points will be rolled as normal, then used for that session, any left over at the end of the session are gone for ever. Any points used during the session are also gone forever. So there is no back and forth; only a set pool determined at the beginning of the session for the Players and the GM. It works well for my group since we get together for so little time each week.