Star Trek is Science Fiction

Lol, no. Star Trek is no more realistic than Star Wars. In fact, I'd say it's even less qualified to be science fiction than Star Wars. Star Wars just says "this is a gun, it shoots you and you die", Star Trek invents a long and painfully stupid technobabble essay for how the gun inverts the quantum polarization and creates a subspace radiation field inside your head and causes you to suffer a neural energy collapse and die.

Another thing look at capital ship combat in Wars its slow and generally involves said ships pulling along side each other and fighting 'age of sail' style

And Star Trek doesn't do this?

I agree. trek has time travel by flying around the sun. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAA?????

I liked how everything the original wars trilogy looked realistic and worn and used. Made it feel very real. (i think part of Vaders lightsaber came from a mic stand)

I think most people forgot all the weird stuff from trek the original series. wars has the force, but trek had beings with godlike powers in every other episode! And almost every planet was roman/greek temples in space. Altoug wars has its own problem of planets consisting of only one terrain type: sand, ice, clouds, swamp, forrest, city...

Question: If Stormtroopers can't hit anything they shoot at, and Red Shirts always die...

What happens when a stormtrooper shoots at a red shirt?

Certain Questions should never be asked!

Question: If Stormtroopers can't hit anything they shoot at, and Red Shirts always die...

What happens when a stormtrooper shoots at a red shirt?

The end of the Time Space continuum!

Five-way: Gundam. All of them.

Stupid transforming junk would have no chance.

Just think of how many weak points something like that would have. Every joint is a weak point and for what gain?

look at a starfury, that's how you make a space fighter.

I said Gundam, not Transformers! Most mobile suits don't have the multi-mode capability, and they are fine without it.

But, seriously, the whole reason mobile suits became the weapons platform of choice (replacing tanks and fighters) was that they could mount much heavier armor, and had better mobility. Not to mention they could field weapons with firepower equivalent to (or, in some cases, surpassing) warships.

You mention the joints as weak points. Sure, they have less armor there. But they're constantly in motion, which makes targeting them much harder. This is also where the abovementioned mobility comes from: using the momentum of a moving arm or leg to help turn your unit around faster, and blast the guy you just whizzed past.

Image searched Starfury. Doesn't look that impressive to me, though that's soley based on the picture.

Question: If Stormtroopers can't hit anything they shoot at, and Red Shirts always die...

What happens when a stormtrooper shoots at a red shirt?

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Stormtroopers_a68d00_1977005.jpg

I said Gundam, not Transformers! Most mobile suits don't have the multi-mode capability, and they are fine without it.

Stupid transforming junk would have no chance.

Doesn't need to be transformers- It could also be Macross/Robotech

Gundam vs macross would be awesome!

Question: If Stormtroopers can't hit anything they shoot at, and Red Shirts always die...

What happens when a stormtrooper shoots at a red shirt?

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Stormtroopers_a68d00_1977005.jpg

Cool I didn't know this existed!

And then Doctor Who shows up and resets everything, and none of it ever happened. The end.

And then Doctor Who shows up and resets everything, and none of it ever happened. The end.

And then Marty and doc brown crash the delorean into the tardis.

But, seriously, the whole reason mobile suits became the weapons platform of choice (replacing tanks and fighters) was that they could mount much heavier armor, and had better mobility. Not to mention they could field weapons with firepower equivalent to (or, in some cases, surpassing) warships.

No, that's just stupid. A human-shaped giant robot would have paper-thin armor compared to a proper tank, simply because the shape has so much more surface area to cover with the same total armor mass. Giant anime robots exist because people think giant anime robots are cool, attempting to justify them as a practical weapon just demonstrates your ignorance of science and engineering.

So much for "Fly Casual" I guess.

But, seriously, the whole reason mobile suits became the weapons platform of choice (replacing tanks and fighters) was that they could mount much heavier armor, and had better mobility. Not to mention they could field weapons with firepower equivalent to (or, in some cases, surpassing) warships.

No, that's just stupid. A human-shaped giant robot would have paper-thin armor compared to a proper tank, simply because the shape has so much more surface area to cover with the same total armor mass. Giant anime robots exist because people think giant anime robots are cool, attempting to justify them as a practical weapon just demonstrates your ignorance of science and engineering.

Rule of cool. your argument is invalid.

But, seriously, the whole reason mobile suits became the weapons platform of choice (replacing tanks and fighters) was that they could mount much heavier armor, and had better mobility. Not to mention they could field weapons with firepower equivalent to (or, in some cases, surpassing) warships.

No, that's just stupid. A human-shaped giant robot would have paper-thin armor compared to a proper tank, simply because the shape has so much more surface area to cover with the same total armor mass. Giant anime robots exist because people think giant anime robots are cool, attempting to justify them as a practical weapon just demonstrates your ignorance of science and engineering.

I'm a history major. Never took an engineering class in my life. I do, however, study the evolution of warship design and construction from the 18th-20th centuries with a religious fervor. My love for sci-fi, including, but not limited to Gundam, approaches, but does not equal this.

Now that we've got my credentials out of the way, this is the in-universe explanation for the rapid employment of mobile suits during the One Year War, in the Universal Century timeline. Also, all tech in UC is derived from real-world science, from the space colonies to the reactors powering the mobile suits.

And, really, do you think we've exhausted the evolution of armor? Lighter no longer equals less. Compare plate armor from 1500 to modern kevlar. In less than 50 years, navies went from timber hulls to iron to steel. As long as people make better weapons to blow stuff up, other people are going to make better armor to stop stuff getting blown up. You don't need an engineering degree to understand that.

agree. and there is the protection offered by greater speed and mobility and the fact that most tanks and mobile suits get one-shotted by the weapons a suit carries. Unless of course said suit is made of gundanium alloy (I started with gundam Wing) or whatever excuse they need to make gundams able to wade trough groups of lesser mobile suits.

agree. and there is the protection offered by greater speed and mobility and the fact that most tanks and mobile suits get one-shotted by the weapons a suit carries. Unless of course said suit is made of gundanium alloy (I started with gundam Wing) or whatever excuse they need to make gundams able to wade trough groups of lesser mobile suits.

Wing FTW!

I feel that a lot of the time they go out of their way to show that, yes, suit performance is important, but it's the pilot that makes the difference. (See the first time Sayla took out the RX-78 in the original. Didn't go so well...)

Now that we've got my credentials out of the way

By which you mean "established that you have no credentials". Seriously, why bother bragging about "credentials" that aren't relevant?

And, really, do you think we've exhausted the evolution of armor?

No, but that has nothing to do with my point. No matter what your armor is made out of the giant anime robot will have weaker armor than a tank. This is simple geometry, the giant anime robot has much more surface area to protect, so a given weight of armor will be much thinner compared to that same amount of armor on a tank. The only way the giant anime robot can even come close to the armor of a tank is if you arbitrarily declare that the giant anime robot gets advanced super-armor while the tank is limited to a few sheets of soggy cardboard.

agree. and there is the protection offered by greater speed and mobility and the fact that most tanks and mobile suits get one-shotted by the weapons a suit carries.

There is no advantage in speed and mobility except because the author thought giant anime robots are cool. In reality the joints wouldn't be able to survive the load imposed by those quick maneuvers, armor would have to be stripped down to almost nothing to keep weight under control, and on anything softer than a paved and reinforced road it would just sink into the ground and crash.

Plus there's also the profile issue. A giant anime robot needs to constantly run and dodge because it's a huge target for everything within a several-mile radius. A tank with equivalent firepower can use terrain for cover and only expose itself to the target it just shot and killed.

Unless of course said suit is made of gundanium alloy (I started with gundam Wing) or whatever excuse they need to make gundams able to wade trough groups of lesser mobile suits.

Or it's a tank armored with this magic alloy, in which case it's much tougher than any giant anime robot thanks to having much less surface area to cover with the same amount of armor. Wasting your best armor on your least-efficient weapons is just plain stupid.

Yeah superior pilots pop up across the gundam franchise: Lt. Noin was pretty good with basic mobile suits, and Andrew "the desert tiger" Waltfield from gundam seed who uses a Bucue to great effect.

agree. and there is the protection offered by greater speed and mobility and the fact that most tanks and mobile suits get one-shotted by the weapons a suit carries.

There is no advantage in speed and mobility except because the author thought giant anime robots are cool. In reality the joints wouldn't be able to survive the load imposed by those quick maneuvers, armor would have to be stripped down to almost nothing to keep weight under control, and on anything softer than a paved and reinforced road it would just sink into the ground and crash.

Unless of course said suit is made of gundanium alloy (I started with gundam Wing) or whatever excuse they need to make gundams able to wade trough groups of lesser mobile suits.

Or it's a tank armored with this magic alloy, in which case it's much tougher than any giant anime robot thanks to having much less surface area to cover with the same amount of armor. Wasting your best armor on your least-efficient weapons is just plain stupid.

Ok

One: mobility does work. if i'm not in the spot where you are shooting at i can't be hit. Best armor ever.

Two: How are you gonna target my joints when i can move faster than your gun turret can rotate?

Three: versatilty: mobile suits were designed for surface to air combat (submarine and zero G variants also) all your slow thank can do is drive around a bit at limited speeds and would have trouble engaging arial targets.

Four: Even today we are at the point we can field weapons that can obliterate ANY armor on ANY ground vehicle.

Making having slabs of armor pointless.

and...Five: Its a bloody anime series, not an episode of future weapons on the discovery channel!

One: mobility does work. if i'm not in the spot where you are shooting at i can't be hit. Best armor ever.

No, I mean "mobility doesn't work" as in "a giant anime robot can't move that fast unless you ignore physics". And if you're ignoring physics to the point that it becomes possible then it's all just magic and anything is possible. So if we have dodging anime robots we might as well also talk about space wizards killing them with their brains.

Two: How are you gonna target my joints when i can move faster than your gun turret can rotate?

Why would anyone need to target joints? Just shoot it wherever you want, none of its armor is thick enough to matter against an anti-tank weapon. This is like suggesting a 20mm cannon isn't effective against an unarmored human because it's difficult to precisely target the human's joints.

Three: versatilty: mobile suits were designed for surface to air combat (submarine and zero G variants also) all your slow thank can do is drive around a bit at limited speeds and would have trouble engaging arial targets.

And you know what? This is really ****ing stupid. There's a reason we don't build submarine helicopter tanks in the real world. Adding on all that "versatility" means that no matter what a giant anime robot is doing it's carrying around obscene amounts of dead weight. So now its armor and weapons get even more pathetic to make up for it, if you can even build something that doesn't collapse under its own weight before it reaches the battlefield.

Four: Even today we are at the point we can field weapons that can obliterate ANY armor on ANY ground vehicle.

Yes, and guess what: if you have a universe in which this is true those same weapons will ALSO effortlessly kill the giant anime robot. Except the giant anime robot will also be vulnerable to a lot of lighter weapons that the tank would be protected against.

Five: Its a bloody anime series, not an episode of future weapons on the discovery channel!

Then why are you talking about it and trying to defend how practical it is? Just like every other annoying anime fanboy you only get out the "but it's just fiction" excuse when it helps you "win" the argument.

Star Trek is the UN in space. Star Wars is the American Revolution in space. Nuff said.

Then what's warhammer 40k? World war II?

From what I understand about 40k (and that is very little since I don't play it), it is the Spanish Inquisition in space.

40k may also be this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAZhtT-dUyo

This thread remembers me of ...

WILL YOU TWO JUST KISS ALREADY.

*waits and watches*