Is there a way to convert Cargo space over to Hard Points? Or any other way to gain Hard Points on your ship to modify things a bit more?

Is there a way to convert Cargo space over to Hard Points? Or any other way to gain Hard Points on your ship to modify things a bit more?

There doesn't appear to be any such rule.

The old Saga days of "convert all of the cargo space that you're never going to use anyway into making any ship a miniature battleship" are gone, it would seem.

I made some house-rules for such a conversion, I also made it quite expensive I if I recall correctly. I haven't tested it so I wouldn't know if its a balanced properly.

When it comes down to it, I think it should be fairly limited - if allowed at all - for just the reason Rikoshi alludes to: turning YTs and Ghtrocs into battleships capable of taking on ships they shouldn't.

I'm just curious, why shouldn't they? I've heard quite a few people say you shouldn't make freighters into serious fighting machines, but why not?

That's what The Falcon basically is. It survived hits from a Star Destroyer, held off waves of fighters, and held it's own in the climactic battles of the war.

If you take a Vehicle, add armor, add weapons, upgrade the engines, reinforce the structure. You might end up with no trunk space, all your passengers crammed into the cockpit, and spending a small fortune, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I admit, I'm no engineer, but it seems pretty reasonable to me. What's a system patrol craft other then a tricked out freighter when you get down to it?

The Falcon is hardly a fighting machine. In fact, half the time we see her she's fleeing from Imperial vessels. She has a couple of quad lasers, a concussion missile launcher, beefed-up shields and a seriously tricked-out hyperdrive. Hardly a gunship.

It depends on what you want your game to represent really.

In my opinion, Light freighters are the SW equal of a Box truck. Some have better seating, some more cargo space, but basically that's what they are built for. Could you convert one into a military vehicle? a low grade one sure, but purpose built types are far superior.

Thematically, the Falcon was at the battle of Endore, but then EVERYTHING the Alliance had was there, taking their shot at the Emperor. Kind of like an army of speed boats, surplus military craft, and hobbiest vessels taking on an aircraft carrier.

As far as the OP goes, I wouldn't allow converting ENC into HP. I'm pretty restrictive on what the party can and cannot do with attachments, and they started off with 120k credit to build whatever kind of ship they wanted. They have a YT-1300 with no hardpoints left, but it's got some cool stuff, and it's quick. they didn't choose a single additional weapon option however, as they really didn't want to look like a gunship.

I'm just curious, why shouldn't they? I've heard quite a few people say you shouldn't make freighters into serious fighting machines, but why not?

That's what The Falcon basically is. It survived hits from a Star Destroyer, held off waves of fighters, and held it's own in the climactic battles of the war.

If you take a Vehicle, add armor, add weapons, upgrade the engines, reinforce the structure. You might end up with no trunk space, all your passengers crammed into the cockpit, and spending a small fortune, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I admit, I'm no engineer, but it seems pretty reasonable to me. What's a system patrol craft other then a tricked out freighter when you get down to it?

The 'pocket battleship' phenomena wasn't with light transports, it was with the bulk freighters, like the Action IV. They weren't very durable, but they could be armed almost to the level of a Star Destroyer by converting all of the cargo space to emplacement points.

Of course, that ignored one of the rules which said that unusual mods cost extra, and extreme mods could be ruled as actually impossible. I'd say that decking out a container ship with 18" guns is probably well beyond the structural capabilities of the hull. No matter *how* much effort you put into reinforcing it.

Actually, the biggest examples of converted battleships would be Mon Calamari cruisers. The first wave of Calamari warships were all converted civilian vessels; passenger liners, transports and the like. Only later did they actually start building warships.

The Falcon is hardly a fighting machine. In fact, half the time we see her she's fleeing from Imperial vessels. She has a couple of quad lasers, a concussion missile launcher, beefed-up shields and a seriously tricked-out hyperdrive. Hardly a gunship.

And her owner and his mechanic both probably grant it an extra HP or two from feats, and have buffed up the weapons and armor as far as they can... she'd be a hangar queen were it not for both of them being skilled mechanics.

And she's STILL got some cargo space.

She's got:

increased sublight speed (High-Output Ion Turbine, 1 hp)

increased hyperdrive speed (Hyperdrive Generator, 1 hp, +2 mods)

Concussion missiles (Upgraded weapon, 1 hp)

Improved shields (Reinforced Shield Generator, 2hp)

Improved armor (Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor, 2 hp)

ECM (ECM Suite, 1 hp)

8 of 6 slots... Both have Tinkerer and Jury Rigged talents.... and at least one of them has the hidden storage talent...

The Falcon is hardly a fighting machine. In fact, half the time we see her she's fleeing from Imperial vessels. She has a couple of quad lasers, a concussion missile launcher, beefed-up shields and a seriously tricked-out hyperdrive. Hardly a gunship.

And her owner and his mechanic both probably grant it an extra HP or two from feats, and have buffed up the weapons and armor as far as they can... she'd be a hangar queen were it not for both of them being skilled mechanics.

And she's STILL got some cargo space.

She's got:

increased sublight speed (High-Output Ion Turbine, 1 hp)

increased hyperdrive speed (Hyperdrive Generator, 1 hp, +2 mods)

Concussion missiles (Upgraded weapon, 1 hp)

Improved shields (Reinforced Shield Generator, 2hp)

Improved armor (Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor, 2 hp)

ECM (ECM Suite, 1 hp)

8 of 6 slots... Both have Tinkerer and Jury Rigged talents.... and at least one of them has the hidden storage talent...

The MF unquestionably has Smuggling Compartments too. So now we're up to 9 Hard Points.

The Falcon is hardly a fighting machine. In fact, half the time we see her she's fleeing from Imperial vessels. She has a couple of quad lasers, a concussion missile launcher, beefed-up shields and a seriously tricked-out hyperdrive. Hardly a gunship.

And her owner and his mechanic both probably grant it an extra HP or two from feats, and have buffed up the weapons and armor as far as they can... she'd be a hangar queen were it not for both of them being skilled mechanics.

And she's STILL got some cargo space.

She's got:

increased sublight speed (High-Output Ion Turbine, 1 hp)

increased hyperdrive speed (Hyperdrive Generator, 1 hp, +2 mods)

Concussion missiles (Upgraded weapon, 1 hp)

Improved shields (Reinforced Shield Generator, 2hp)

Improved armor (Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor, 2 hp)

ECM (ECM Suite, 1 hp)

8 of 6 slots... Both have Tinkerer and Jury Rigged talents.... and at least one of them has the hidden storage talent...

The MF unquestionably has Smuggling Compartments too. So now we're up to 9 Hard Points.

Nope... Hidden storage talent provides that for free.

The Falcon is hardly a fighting machine. In fact, half the time we see her she's fleeing from Imperial vessels. She has a couple of quad lasers, a concussion missile launcher, beefed-up shields and a seriously tricked-out hyperdrive. Hardly a gunship.

And her owner and his mechanic both probably grant it an extra HP or two from feats, and have buffed up the weapons and armor as far as they can... she'd be a hangar queen were it not for both of them being skilled mechanics.

And she's STILL got some cargo space.

She's got:

increased sublight speed (High-Output Ion Turbine, 1 hp)

increased hyperdrive speed (Hyperdrive Generator, 1 hp, +2 mods)

Concussion missiles (Upgraded weapon, 1 hp)

Improved shields (Reinforced Shield Generator, 2hp)

Improved armor (Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor, 2 hp)

ECM (ECM Suite, 1 hp)

8 of 6 slots... Both have Tinkerer and Jury Rigged talents.... and at least one of them has the hidden storage talent...

The MF unquestionably has Smuggling Compartments too. So now we're up to 9 Hard Points.

Nope... Hidden storage talent provides that for free.

Hidden Storage only provides it's Rank in Encumbrance that can be concealed. Even with evey appearance of Hidden Storage on every tree in EotE, this doesn't get above Rank 3. That would only let the MF hold a single weapon - certainly not enought to account for three humans, a wookiee, and two droids.

I'm not so sure on the armor/shields upgrades...

The hyperdrive is obvious (1 hp), and probably the HOIT (1hp)

pull the medium laser turrets and add in quad lasers. (0hp)

Smuggling compartments (1 hp)

Maybe the ECM maybe not. I believe that there is an action that allows a person to "jam" their communications...

I wouldn't necessarily feel obligated to add in anything else, although Chewil would almost certainly be an Outlaw Tech. Han a Scoundrel.

hmm i was toying with the idea that you could remove 5 x silhouette in Enc capacity and gain a HP, this HP also comes with a Set back Die to all skill checks with the ship.

Also whenever your add-on HP doubles your original HP you also gain an Upgrade to despair die on difficulty die on all checks with the ship

I'm just curious, why shouldn't they? I've heard quite a few people say you shouldn't make freighters into serious fighting machines, but why not?

That's what The Falcon basically is. It survived hits from a Star Destroyer, held off waves of fighters, and held it's own in the climactic battles of the war.

If you take a Vehicle, add armor, add weapons, upgrade the engines, reinforce the structure. You might end up with no trunk space, all your passengers crammed into the cockpit, and spending a small fortune, but there's no reason it shouldn't work. I admit, I'm no engineer, but it seems pretty reasonable to me. What's a system patrol craft other then a tricked out freighter when you get down to it?

The Falcon survived hits from the Star Destroyers point defense lasers not their turbolaser batteries.

I note that many of you are talking about the improvements, but many of those come with some string, like reduced handling.

I'd sit down and figure out what your party needs to have fun.

You have basically two configurations to aim for... Silhouette 5, (big roomy, handles like a pig, but could easily carry lots of fighters, and how about those illegal Turbo Lasers.) Silhouette 4, (small, maneuverable, small guns, can't carry stunt fighters).

Remember that the ship is a narrative element.

There are plenty of ships to choose from as a starter point at least in terms of specifications. So start with that. Let them have stuff to make things cool. (Personally, I have a penchant for a shuttle or something.)

This ship has the right look and feel for EOTE. Its got two bays that can be Cargo, Vehicle, or Passengers. There is a ship variant (Volatus) with no cargo bays but two engines instead. (I'd give it +1 Speed, +1 Handling?) The cockpit can separate as an orbital shuttle (while the engineering section can control the ship). There are 2-3 rooms or so that can be modified for passengers\prisoners or cargo.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/18912/Future-Armada-Venture?term=venture&it=1

Silhouette 5 equivalent? This baby is ready to add launch bays.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/65982/Future-Armada-Lakota

The ship may have a story.. (and why not) i.e. it may have been a scrapped gun boat. The players start sans weapons and shuttles.

In short... the players can have fun with that...

I note that many of you are talking about the improvements, but many of those come with some string, like reduced handling.

I'd sit down and figure out what your party needs to have fun.

You have basically two configurations to aim for... Silhouette 5, (big roomy, handles like a pig, but could easily carry lots of fighters, and how about those illegal Turbo Lasers.) Silhouette 4, (small, maneuverable, small guns, can't carry stunt fighters).

Remember that the ship is a narrative element.

There are plenty of ships to choose from as a starter point at least in terms of specifications. So start with that. Let them have stuff to make things cool. (Personally, I have a penchant for a shuttle or something.)

This ship has the right look and feel for EOTE. Its got two bays that can be Cargo, Vehicle, or Passengers. There is a ship variant (Volatus) with no cargo bays but two engines instead. (I'd give it +1 Speed, +1 Handling?) The cockpit can separate as an orbital shuttle (while the engineering section can control the ship). There are 2-3 rooms or so that can be modified for passengers\prisoners or cargo.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/18912/Future-Armada-Venture?term=venture&it=1

Silhouette 5 equivalent? This baby is ready to add launch bays.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/65982/Future-Armada-Lakota

The ship may have a story.. (and why not) i.e. it may have been a scrapped gun boat. The players start sans weapons and shuttles.

In short... the players can have fun with that...

The first one you mention, the Venture, looks amazingly similar to a YT-1930 (at least externally).

The first one you mention, the Venture, looks amazingly similar to a YT-1930 (at least externally).

Looks like it! I figured it would appeal more to the purists. :-) Visually it has more engine and an engine room. (I think the engine room is important for an engineer...)

The layouts they provide include a large format jpeg. So you won't need the whole minature based scale map.

And yeah.. its a functional layout. In this case, there is no loading ramp. One of those joyful features the players will hate if they don't get the cargo bays... :-)

They also have a 'imperial shuttle' like design which can carry a lot of cargo.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/85975/Future-Armada-Talon

I imagine we'll get more detailed rules on customizing starships in a future sourcebook, quite likely the one that focuses on Smugglers, since tricked-out transports seem to their thing in EotE.

I imagine we'll get more detailed rules on customizing starships in a future sourcebook, quite likely the one that focuses on Smugglers, since tricked-out transports seem to their thing in EotE.

Which is why it's rarely a good idea to try building the iconic craft using the basic materials in the core EOTE book. Solo and Chewie have access to talents and buffs we haven't even dreamed of yet.

I'm not so sure on the armor/shields upgrades...

The hyperdrive is obvious (1 hp), and probably the HOIT (1hp)

pull the medium laser turrets and add in quad lasers. (0hp)

Smuggling compartments (1 hp)

Maybe the ECM maybe not. I believe that there is an action that allows a person to "jam" their communications...

I wouldn't necessarily feel obligated to add in anything else, although Chewil would almost certainly be an Outlaw Tech. Han a Scoundrel.

All of them are listed as things upgraded according to the Haynes Millenium Falcon Shop Manual...

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just resurrect this one.

My question is this: using the house rules here, how long do you think it would take to convert 300 units of encumbrance capacity (in a Silhouette-6 frigate) into a usable CHP?

On 14/8/2013 at 3:17 AM, AK_Aramis said:

I'm not so sure on the armor/shields upgrades...

The hyperdrive is obvious (1 hp), and probably the HOIT (1hp)

pull the medium laser turrets and add in quad lasers. (0hp)

Smuggling compartments (1 hp)

Maybe the ECM maybe not. I believe that there is an action that allows a person to "jam" their communications...

I wouldn't necessarily feel obligated to add in anything else, although Chewil would almost certainly be an Outlaw Tech. Han a Scoundrel.

All of them are listed as things upgraded according to the Haynes Millenium Falcon Shop Manual...

If Chewie is a modder he can add 2 HP and that brings the Falcon to 8 HP, and everything we see on screen fits in:

increased sublight speed (High-Output Ion Turbine, 1 hp)

increased hyperdrive speed (Hyperdrive Generator, 1 hp, +2 mods)

Concussion missiles (Upgraded weapon, 1 hp)

Smuggling compartments (1hp)

Groundbuzzer gun (1hp)

Quad laser cannon (replace the orignal weapons, 0 hp)

This leaves 3 hp for some more mods among:

Improved shields (Reinforced Shield Generator, 2hp)

Improved armor (Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor, 2 hp)

Rapid Evacuation chute (1 hp)

Now considering we never see the hull being sturdy but we see the shield taking a turbolaser hit before collapsing i'd choose the Improved shields (they also don't reduce handling). Also i think the problem with jabba was that Han jettisoned his spice to avoid being caught when he was boarded so i'd choose the rapid evacuation chute. It's also possible that nothing was installed and Han kept those HP free, the films don't help us in this regard.

A slightly creative interpretation of the Tinkerer talent would allow to install a 7th HP on the Falcon without anybody needing a Madder spec, and that makes it possible to install the rapid evacuation chute.

Also i doubt Haynes Manual is canon, and the legends material have tried to make the millenium falcon in the best of the best super awesome starship. Let's go with what we see on screen: the films don't lie.

7 hours ago, ShadoWarrior said:

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd just resurrect this one.

My question is this: using the house rules here, how long do you think it would take to convert 300 units of encumbrance capacity (in a Silhouette-6 frigate) into a usable CHP?

The remaining lifetime of the universe and then some more
Keep in mind that the encumbrance rating represents basically the storage of the locker rooms, wardrobes and a few workshop shelves. Now you try to install a extra fusion reactor into an X-Wing with the size of 4 apples. This obviously will take some time °_^

Anyway, it can be done within a few hours to a few weeks, same as hull repairs, outside of the problem of how rediculously the conversion itself is, it should be done pretty quickly, if you run under the assumption that it can be done and can be done on that kind of small space.

The best part about is that your freighter still can take about the same amount of cargo in form of docked cargo containers, you just have to tell the charmer in the group that he needs to cut down on his wardrobe. ;-)

Time for some do-it-yourself rule!

My starting point to design the rule is the Lambda Class T-4A Long Range Shuttle: encumbrance 200 without passengers, and passengers 20.
Not every ship is as modern, multipurpose and flexible as the Lambda Shuttle, and you will loose extra space when you try to cramp a passenger cabin when you don't have that much space. My intent is to have diminishing returns when you just try to add a couple of passengers instead of having big overhaul to convert an entire cargo bay to a new purpose. I consider cargo ships can move cattle without any core modifications (because as a DM I say so^^), so the modification should be quite affordable at a small scale.

So here is my house rule for a extra passenger space attachment:

Cargo to passenger cabin conversion:
Base modifier:
Add passenger capacity to the ship. This counts living space as well as added supplies and survival system extensions of the ship.

Adding 1 to 5 passengers = 15 Encumbrance points per passenger
Adding 6 to 19 passengers = 12 Encumbrance points per passenger
Adding 20 passengers = 10 Encumbrance points per passenger
Modification options : None
Hard point required: None
EDITED Price: 2000 credits per 10 passengers added(rounded up), plus 200 credits per encumbrance point converted.

I would multiply this cost according to intended comfort from 0.8 for prisoners/slaves, to 2 or more for luxury quarters, and by 5 or even more for a luxury space condo (indoor pools and zero gravity disco dance floors not included).

Furthermore, when a ship is overbooked I would add penalties to all travelers in uncomfortable position. Besides lowering the ship autonomy, I would lower the strain threshold of the crew and passengers and add a few black dices to all checks on top of that for long trips. Those penalties can be limited somehow: overcrowding slave pens usually doesn't affect the crew much, even if the "cargo" is basically living upon its own excrement.

Any comments/suggestions about that?
How would you design it?