I heard about this on these forums somewhere, but I don't remember where. I have a group of 5 people who are willing to try to make up two teams that affect each other in the universe. Two people are going to be one group, the others are going to make another group and will both act as rival Rogue Traders and retinue.

I have a few examples about how this could work or what could happen:

-Group A buys most of the lasgun power packs in the nearby worlds, causing Group B to have a shortage of ammo for their own crew.

-Group A is on bad terms with a powerful trader and literally destroys their business, causing Group B to lose one of their major connections.

-(this one may be a main plot) A large planet rich with valuable resources is in a war between two nations. Both groups want the resources, but soon end up choosing rival nations to support. However, to gain the full extent of the worlds resources, the groups must help fight to win the war and gain territory to gain access to all the valuables.

I think this can be a fun and interesting type of campaign. I'm just wondering if anyone else has tried this. Has it worked well? Does anyone has any ideas and tips on how to run this campaign? If anyone can help, please let me know! Thanks!

I have not personally run a split group like that but i have considered it because my group is so large (7 people).

My Idea to split it was in a more COOPERATIVE way but I considered running it as two sons of a RT who are working together and sharing the warrant, profit factor, misfortune, and the like in two separate vessels and fleets. Which leads to an interesting dynamic as the groups are never completely independent of one another; for instance one group may need the other to rescue it or the mistakes one makes hurt both of them. It also allows everyone to come together for occasional large events and battles and the end of meta endeavors and the like or for people to move between the two groups as their schedule or roleplay dictates.

As for your COMPETITIVE style of campaign I think it has a lot of merit and sounds like a very compelling and fun way to play. That being said I do foresee a few possible problems with that setup as it may:

- Turn into both groups attacking each other and getting even instead of exploring the galaxy and building up profit factor thus resulting in a continuous loss in purchasing power that makes the game harder to play and less fun when they can't afford to buy the toys they need to continue their feud.

- You could also have one group wipe the other one out or come out ahead so often it is clear that the other group doesn't stand a chance in the feud which will likely kill their will to play.

- Also it will limit your ability to present enemies to the PCs because if they prove to be to tough then they will be easy picking for their rivals assuming those same rivals hadn't befallen a similar fate.

- Players can't bounce between groups as easily either without being traitors or having multiple characters.

The best way to prevent all of that is GM management of their interactions, like preventing them from going to all out war with the other group (in person not in proxy), forcing the two sides to take breaks from fighting with missions of deep exploration into the expanse or other mission that aren't going to be affected by their rivals, providing common enemies such and dangerous xenos or daemons, and heading off crippling strikes by one group against another so both can keep playing.

I'm of a similar mind to MagosSteel. The idea of a competitive campaign is fun, but turning it into a constant battle of Group A vs Group B I can see quickly getting out of hand, as now a person or even a group missing one session puts them at a huge disadvantage to the other. I can't see myself having a good experience if my players are actively trying to defeat other players, even if they're not face-to-face at the time.

Coming up with a scenario similar to the Wintersacle/Chorda dynamic would be my approach to this scenario. Both groups represent factions that really hate each other, but the first one that declares war will have to deal with not only their enemy but a much more powerful third party (e.g. The Adeptus Mechanicus wondering who messed up their Nephium supply). Carve out a little region of space and divvy up the worlds by loyalty to the various dynasties, and then instead of Profit Factor have the players conduct missions to win Influence over worlds for their Dynasties. This should be able to keep the tension up as one group will not necessarily know where the other group is attempting to weaken them, and then all combat becomes more intense because it's not just a question of winning, but ensuring that the other side doesn't manage to secure proof that you're trying to screw the peace process.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I understand the problems that you both have came up with. One of my ideas is that there is a planet or solar system they have come upon that is lead by 2 or 3 major rulers that are all in their own war. The planet/system is very rich in resource, and the easiest way to get to a majority of these resources is by supporting one or more of these rulers. This would mean that the groups do still have some sort of competition, but it would lead the groups to be focused more on the ruler's problems and needs. If they invest in money and soldiers to these rulers, they may be payed in this valuable resource, and may get to the full extent by helping to win battles and maybe even the war.

I know, however, that this whole war thing will cause even more potential problems, but it might also eliminate some others. MagosSteel I may even consider your cooperative play, as it seems easier for me (I've only GM'd like 6 Pathfinder sessions and 3 Rogue Trader sessions) and for my players (1 player is veteran at DnD, 2 are pretty experienced with roleplay, and 2 are relatively new). Thanks for your ideas and post anymore that may come up.

I like the idea of having the group back different factions in a system struggle and it could even be expanded to a star cluster should you wish to increase the scale and duration of the campaign. The only minor problem with that would be justifying those factions ability to travel in the warp or some other way between star systems. Remember that only navigators can navigate the warp easily so if they are human empires on that scale unsanctioned psychers would be much more risky. Alternately they could have rouge navigator houses working for them.

Through some Xenos into the mix to as a common enemy that will focus more so on the winning side to keep a healthy amount of balance and even offer a peaceful way out of the competition for both sides. i find Orks are an easy enemy for a new party as Chaos can easily dump out way to much corruption, Eldar have a tech edge that can make them dangerous, and the Rak'gol are incredibly dangerous.

Hm. I'm liking the idea of star clusters, warp travel, and xenos. The star cluster, yes has a warp travel problem, but also allows the groups to be even more inclined to NOT fight each other constantly. If the "main" world of each faction is in separate systems, I'd imagine that they would stay away from the warp. They problem of xenos or a third faction attacking both sides can also keep them back in their supported system to help defend. I like the idea MagosSteel.

Along the line of xenos, I have a question. All the players and myself play the tabletop game, so all of the players are familiar with the major xenos. One of my friends seems to be hinting at wanting to fight Tau. He seems to have a hilarious hatred for them, and I am willing to give him the fight, as I think the other players and I would have fun with those types of enemies.

So on power level, where are they, or maybe even Kroot at? I would imagine Tau are like Eldar and have that tech edge, very likely even stronger. Are there any stats for Tau in any books from any of the games? Or would I have to make them myself based on lore or maybe even tabletop stats?

Another thing, is it even possible for Tau to reach the Koronus Expanse? What about Kroot? I would assume so because they are in the rule book.

The Tau ships from Battlefleet Gothic seem to have long-distance, high-powered weapons but tend to get shredded at close range by an Imperial broadside. From what I understand from the fluff this is consistent where the Tau absolutely have superior technology on the ground, but lack quite a bit in the void. They're certainly nowhere near the Eldar in terms of power. Sadly there are no official stats, but I'm working on adapting the rules from BFG to RT based on some work that some people have done already.

For the troops, there are stats for the Tau in Deathwatch, particularly Mark of the Xenos. Your average Tau Pathfinder is probably a little better than your average human NPC, although they would still get stomped by an Eldar. A Tau Battlesuit is a challenge for a Space Marine, and it shows. Kroot (and Vespid) are more footsoldiers suitable for PC warfare.

it's unclear if the Tau are in the Expanse or not, although they are in the Jericho Reach and it's not impossible there's a task force in there. The Kroot have certainly alluded to a path from the Eastern Rim to the Koronus Expanse that they travelled, so the Tau might have done the same. It's complicated because Kroot Warspheres are mentioned as having true Warp travel capabilities, so they might have a different method. Fortunately as the GM you could completely say that there are Tau in the Expanse, just right over there!

Much like Erathia said the Tau have a tech base that is way behind the Eldar and roughly on par with humanity. The tabletop game is designed to make them look very advanced and superior to the Imperium mostly because Imperial forces have a lot of WW2 flavor to their tactics as opposed to the more modern flavor of the Tau but they're not about the same fluff wise. The Tau's technological edge on the ground is almost always mitigated by their huge weaknesses in space. They lack warp travel capability and thus move slower than Imperial vessels as well as ways of significant firepower; using over sized rail guns is only so good against lances and macrocannons.

As for stats pulling them from Deathwatch may require some tweaking because the units in there are usually powered up to allow them to survive a bolter round or two before dieing. As far as Kroot go you already have those stats from the Core book I believe.

The hard part will be fluffing in the Tau in a believable way as the Jericho Reach is on the other side of the galaxy from the players (worm hole travel via a spot in the maw). You could do this by saying that there is a second worm hole in tau space that allows them to come here but then that opens you up to the possibility of Tyranid and Necron invasions from the Jericho Reach.

Finally in running tau tread lightly as your players will be at a disadvantage outside of their ship due to the ranged edge of the Tau. But keep in mind that Humans chop up Tau like Orks chop up Humans in close combat and starship combat is fun.

I understand the Tau's weakness in space from just reading their 4th Ed. codex. Their inability to comprehend the warp, let alone go through it just sound silly to me. And now that you explained it, it does sound like the fluff over-glorifies the Tau tech.

I wasn't much aware of the spacecraft that the Tau actually have though. But thanks you two for the info on their ships.

I did hear about the Tau being in DW, and was thinking of using it. But like you both said I figured that they would be buffed up to fight Space Marines. However, if I ever acquire the DW book, I probably will just use those normal stats, because I don't plan on using the Tau till the PCs are at least a few levels higher.

Finally; getting Tau there. I do like the worm hole idea. It's probably the only logical thing I can think of. So thanks for that idea. And because Necrons and Nids and things like that are there, I can come up with some ways to get that in their campaigns. Again, thanks.

So thanks for all these ideas. If I have any more questions I'll ask.

It's not necessarily a case of over-glorifies, but that there are some elements of technology the Tau just can't deal with, as well as some that would come with the millenia of spacefaring experience the tau don' t have yet. Building spacegoing capital ships takes decades or centuries, so we're only in the first few generations of tau spaceships.

At local scale, the latest tau ships are not a bad match for the imperial fleet - although they are much more missile boats and carriers than the lumbering gun-batteries of an imperial ship. It's at a strategic scale the tau have more trouble.

Not being able to produce Warp Drives is one thing, but they also don't know how to make Gellar Fields - and, more concerningly, don't fully understand what happens if you have one without the other. Equally, and most importantly, even if your Aether Drive/ZFR drive/whatever you call it lets you safely skim the edges of the warp, the tau have no Navigator gene in their genome - so you're stuck making catastophically small, slow jumps. This makes tau fleets painfully slow at interstellar manouvre.

Equally, only tau capital ships have meaningful FTL capability (escorts have short-ranged, local jumps), with many escorts 'riding inside' jumps by capital ships. Fine for line battlefleets or colonial carriers, not so great for recon - the imperial fleet can deploy a fast destroyer squadron to shadow an enemy fleet, the Kor'Vattra can't do the same in response.

Lastly, the imperium has FLT interstellar communication - unreliable as it is, an astropath can punch a signal from star to star dozens or hundreds of times faster than a tau courier drone can make the same trip.

Into The Storm has rules for Tau Pulse Rifles. They're absolutely brutal in comparison to most Imperial tech. Highest damage of just about any Basic weapon, longer range than some sniper rifles, and a special rule that says that firing at Extreme Range is only a -10 penalty instead of -30, which means that they can stand 1119 meters away and blaze away on full auto without a care in the world. Did I mention their guns have full auto?

This, combined with the fact that Tau are unique in the 40k universe for having far more sanity than glory. They don't mind retreating, they like ambushes, they think headlong charges are the last resort of the incompetant. If your PCs want to fight Tau without overwhelming force, they're going to need a LOT of cunning.