So, two Gruesome Injury later...

It's random, it's shocking, it's a character development, it can never be undone, the character hero of our story has 0 in a Characteristic, but apparently it's more fun...

Discuss:

Characters can die too. That typically leaves them with 0 in ALL characteristics and severe limits on what skills and talents are usable. I usually retire a dead character and make a new one as I don't generally enjoy playing a corpse. A crippled character has more options, but if you're not going to enjoy playing it, its OK to retire it too.

Heck, you can retire a character who *hasn't* died or suffered some debilitating injury. For no other reason than that you aren't enjoying the character as much as you used to, or expected to. Boom. Done. Retired. Make a new character.

But remember this. In EotE, even if you permanently lose a point in an characteristic, even the characteristic that drives the core skill(s) and abilities of your character concept, you can still become better at it than you were *before* the characteristic loss. You spend the XP on a new rank in the appropriate skill(s), and you're better off than you were before. More dice is better than bigger dice. (I think the changeover is upgrading 3 greens to yellows are better than gaining an additional green, but that's not a scenario that you run into either way here, unless you're repeatedly taking that Gruesome Injury to the same characteristic without being able to train up your skill in the mean time.)

The only instance where this isn't the case is if you were already at Rank 5 in the characteristic and Rank 6 in the skill.

Note that Gruesome Injury states that characteristics can only be lowered to 1.

Yep. If you have an Agility of 3, and you get nailed with Gruesome Injury 4 times, for Agility each time, you still have an Agility of 1. (And really bad, but strangely good, luck with the dice!) This is still a distinct advantage over the character who gets nailed with The End is Nigh, or Dead, which are only 10 & 15 up the Critical Injury chart.

The chance of getting the gruesome injury is slim, but so is the chance someone dies... I guess I would check with your players what they think about it. I'm sure they'll surprise you because many players don't enjoy a game where there is no real danger present to their PC's.

GM: ...and that is when the Dark lord stands close and says, "Luke, you've only begun to realize your importance..."

Player: OMFG! You just cut off my character's f***ing hand, you a**hole!

GM: ...wut? wait...

Player: My special snowflake is ruined! Now he'll never become a Jedi! Never!

GM: ...dude, there's like cybernetics and...

Player: F*** that! I'm outta here...

GM: ...and that is when the Dark lord stands close and says, "Luke, you've only begun to realize your importance..."

Player: OMFG! You just cut off my character's f***ing hand, you a**hole!

GM: ...wut? wait...

Player: My special snowflake is ruined! Now he'll never become a Jedi! Never!

GM: ...dude, there's like cybernetics and...

Player: F*** that! I'm outta here...

...and you never have to deal with that player again. Sounds like a win/win.

GM: ...and that is when the Dark lord stands close and says, "Luke, you've only begun to realize your importance..."

Player: OMFG! You just cut off my character's f***ing hand, you a**hole!

GM: ...wut? wait...

Player: My special snowflake is ruined! Now he'll never become a Jedi! Never!

GM: ...dude, there's like cybernetics and...

Player: F*** that! I'm outta here...

Although... just Devil's Advocating here, but... I could see a player being concerned (and a bit miffed) if the GM was overly tight with funds and resources so as to make sure the PC didn't have an opportunity to afford/find a replacement for the missing limb...

Sure, Luke didn't seem all that bu++-hurt about the loss of the hand, in the moment. But then again, he probably had confidence in the writer providing him with a suitable replacement in the very next scene...

GM: ...and that is when the Dark lord stands close and says, "Luke, you've only begun to realize your importance..."

Player: OMFG! You just cut off my character's f***ing hand, you a**hole!

GM: ...wut? wait...

Player: My special snowflake is ruined! Now he'll never become a Jedi! Never!

GM: ...dude, there's like cybernetics and...

Player: F*** that! I'm outta here...

Although... just Devil's Advocating here, but... I could see a player being concerned (and a bit miffed) if the GM was overly tight with funds and resources so as to make sure the PC didn't have an opportunity to afford/find a replacement for the missing limb...

Sure, Luke didn't seem all that bu++-hurt about the loss of the hand, in the moment. But then again, he probably had confidence in the writer providing him with a suitable replacement in the very next scene...

Isn't a base prosthetic only around 250 credits?

Worst case, pick up a few obligation to buy that cyber hand you were drooling over.

Isn't a base prosthetic only around 250 credits?

Worst case, pick up a few obligation to buy that cyber hand you were drooling over.

But you don't just declare, "I take on Obligation and have a new hand". It still requires a GM to allow you to find the resources, the appendage, and someone to put it on you. In the end, my point was really that, if you have a GM that likes to make the PCs craw through the muck, gettin pink-eye and malaria, just to earn 3 cred, cutting off a hand can be a terrifying reality. You might not see yourself made whole for quite some time.

IMO, if you cut off a PC's limb, as a GM you should perhaps put in a little effort opening a path to replace said appendage. Or at the least, not impede it. Don't be cruel.

Who would want to play with such a GM anyway?

Who would want to play with such a GM anyway?

That's a darn good question.

Maybe for the challenge? Kind of how people loved Dark Souls/Demon Souls?

Yeah, I threw a control pad through a glass table with that game before deciding that didn't really make sense for a 37 year old to do and selling the game. Imagine doing that with a GM!

Yeah, I threw a control pad through a glass table with that game before decidingnthat didn't really make sense for a 37 year old to do. Imagine doing that with a GM!

Although HackMaster can become very much in that vein of play. It is quite fun for short durations, but I couldn't take it as a regular thing. Same thing with Cyberpunk 2020.

GM: ...and that is when the Dark lord stands close and says, "Luke, you've only begun to realize your importance..."

Player: OMFG! You just cut off my character's f***ing hand, you a**hole!

GM: ...wut? wait...

Player: My special snowflake is ruined! Now he'll never become a Jedi! Never!

GM: ...dude, there's like cybernetics and...

Player: F*** that! I'm outta here...

Awesome post! Especially the "special snowflake" bit, that had me laughing out loud.

Honestly, I would see it as a sort of Obligation. I mean, if I were a fringer and someone broke my leg permanently, I would probably take an oath to find and kill him/her...

I would definitely include it in my games. Though my players might hate me at first; I think with a bit of explaining how it can impact their characters story... They would see how awesome it is.

Yeah, in our Saga game, we had exactly the inverse of this happen to us. Instead of something bad that can turn out to be really cool, we have something really cool that will probably get us all killed.

We managed to 'rescue' a really sweet, high-spec transport. Unquestionably better than anything else on the market. An advanced prototype for the Imperial Inquisitors to fly around in. I can't say for certain, but I think I'm the only player who has realized at this point that we have an absolutely spectacular, solid platinum, stygian crystal encrusted boat anchor. It's virtually unique. *Only* the Empire has anything like it. Any port we show up in will have a record of this *unique* ship, and how long it was there. It's an astoundingly tempting *death trap*, and we'll be lucky to be able to trade it for a stock YT-1300.

Just want to point out that losing a limb and permanently losing a stat are two different things. (Also the limb price was wrong)

Maimed 101-105 is losing a limb. This only stops all actions requiring that limb, all other actions get a black dice added.

Gruesome Injury reduces a characteristic permanently.

To ruin the example, Luke and Anakin had thier hands cut off and replaced by prosthetic in the next scene. The hand didn't make Anakin a better pilot nor did it make Luke able to swing his lightsaber harder at Vader.

Prosthetic limbs cost 2000 creds. The cyber parts that up stats are 10,000 creds. Additionally, the cybernetics that increase characteristics only apply to Brawn, Agility and Intelligence. You can't bounce back from a hit to Cunning, Willpower or Presence. Those stats are vital to Face and Force characters. The cheapest route to Dedication is 75XP from the Bounty Hunter Assassin and Gadgeteer, Colonist Doctor, Smuggler Scoundrel and Thief, and Technician Mechanic. This is a matter of opinion. but to me, the Gadgeteer, Doctor and Thief have more important skills to pick up, detouring along the tree before getting Dedication and the Smuggler is a 50/50 shot depending on which side of the tree you started down

Face characters likely won't be that great in combat (there are exceptions) so losing a Presence point hurts the whole party because talking is usually what they're only good at. A Force user losing Will won't be as strong because a LOT of the good powers require Vigilance skill.

We'll even look at the numbers.

At character gen, for characteristics going from 3 to 4 is 40XP. Going from 2 to 3 is 30XP. So going from 2 to 4 is 70XP.

For this example, we'll assume the character is a Human Mechanic with 4 Int and put 2 free skills in Mechanics (career and specialization). 2 Yellow and 2 Green are nice for a Mechanics check.

Some bad crits later, and the Mechanic loses an Int. That's a 40XP lose and now he's rolling 2 Yellow and 1 Green.

Player 2 will be playing a Human Marauder, all they can do combat stuff really. Not touching any Mechanics skill in generation, they'd roll 2 Green because of Human Int.

Since Mechanics is not a Class Skill, it takes +5 per increase to up it each level.

0 to 1 is 10XP, 1 to 2 is 15XP, 2 to 3 is 20XP.

10+15+20= 45XP.

And now the Marauder is rolling the same dice as the Mechanic. (3 Int, 2 Mech is the same as 2 Int, 3 Mech)

That's a 40XP penalty vs a 45XP cost, it becomes a 35XP cost if the Marauder took Mechanics as one of his Human, non-specialization skill.

Now I'll be the first one to point out the flaws in this example:

a) the Mechanic would be earning this 45XP (or 35XP) at the same time as the Marauder, which can be spend on other things

b) the Marauder is making himself useless at everything ignoring his talent tree and upping a non class skill

c) the Mechanic's talents do have good perks to assist Mechanics checks

Now let me counter some of those:

1) this is an extreme example, that's why I, myself, included B

2) the talent tree for a Mechanic revolve mostly around passing checks, something that's harder to do with less dice. One whole green die can make the difference.

So which is worse?

Losing 1 session while you retire this character and stat out a new character that will be on par with the rest of the party (as suggested before)

or

Losing 4 sessions worth of XP?

Alternatively:

You could just have your team's Doctor make a Hard Medicine check and lose 0 sessions.

You could just have your team's Doctor make a Hard Medicine check and lose 0 sessions

Or you could have your players not fight at all and just have them pet puppies each session.

Yeah, I threw a control pad through a glass table

Or you could have your players not fight at all and just have them pet puppies each session.

Probably a good idea if you have players that will destroy your furniture!

How exciting is a roleplaying game when there is no danger in its battles???

(No idea what a quote about my frustration with a video game had to do with your fear of following the rules of an rpg.... Apparently I struck a nerve.)

Also, "lose 0 sessions"? Is xp the goal? Does it make or break the game?

Also, "lose 0 sessions"? Is xp the goal? Does it make or break the game?

This is what blows me away about that whole post, and why in my opinion this is a completely different style of play than I'm used to with a role playing game like this.

For me a roleplaying game like this is not about min-maxing stats or acquiring loot or gaining XP but about playing out a fun, dramatic, Star Wars story with my friends.

I already discussed how I feel that the permanent loss of a stat is more valuable in terms of roleplay possibilities for the characters and players than it is a terrible thing because it might make some aspect of the game a bit harder.

Maybe if that happens to your character, your entire party can just be a little more clever and figure out some better strategy AND roleplay the hell out of it.

Honestly if all you care about is just gaining XP and maxing out your stats so there's no challenge in the game I don't even understand why you're playing a game in the first place, much less a specifically "narrative" roleplaying game.

For a game like X-Wing Miniatures, yeah, min-max the heck out of it, it's specifically about combat and a big part of the fun is figuring out exactly which builds work best against which other builds.

For a game like Edge of the Empire, in my opinion it's about telling a story.

In fact I would go so far that if a game where a gruesome injury happens is considered a lost session then I don't understand how that moment was roleplayed... It would seem to have the potential to be one of the most memorable sessions a party could ever have. I love a bit of drama in my narative.

What's next? Retire a character because they take damage? We have a system that you can make a very good character without increasing stats. So you've had a gruesome injury? Use it as a tool to try something new. Say you lose a point of brawn during a struggle with, and defeating, a bounty hunter that has been hounding you. Convert that bounty obligation to addiction. You now have a new facet to your character.

What's next? Retire a character because they take damage? We have a system that you can make a very good character without increasing stats. So you've had a gruesome injury? Use it as a tool to try something new. Say you lose a point of brawn during a struggle with, and defeating, a bounty hunter that has been hounding you. Convert that bounty obligation to addiction. You now have a new facet to your character.

That's fine if that's what you want to play. OTOH, turning the character over to the GM to use as an NPC and making a new character is fine too. Consider that a player may have had both Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker as characters and the player may have had enough of playing Anakin after Mustafar. The player wants to have his PC be a Jedi and when the former falls from that, he makes a new character and tries again.

not trying to stir the pot, but isn't the idea of downgrading or player advantage in plot and gameplay to flip a destiny. I'm sure you can always flip a destiny and say the injury wasn't as bad as originally thought or the surgery was so well done that tthe gruesome wound was repaired and no stat lost. Destiny is designed to cover things like this for players who absolutely can't live with the dramatic loss of stats. Destiny is by designed a way to let players take control of the plot for their benefit at the cost of leaving the GM with more chances to do the same at other moments. If a player wishes to flip a destiny in favor of explaining that the medical treatment was luckily able to save the stat, then thats all their is to it. The system is flexible for all play styles.