The Gruesome Injury critical hit says to reduce a characteristic permanently by one.

Am I correct in understanding this means "permanently" permanently, and not just until the injury is healed or until the end of the session or adventure or what have you?

Yep, forever and ever.

I would say until healed, otherwise it would not have a difficulty to heal.

I would say until healed, otherwise it would not have a difficulty to heal.

I'm not sure about this. If you start with Agility 3 and you get the Gruesome Injury and roll Agility, your Agility drops to 2, as it says, "permanently". You now have 1 Critical Injury which means +10 to the roll for any future Crits until this one is healed.

The difficulty to heal covers using medicine to remove the Critical Injury but this *could* just mean removing the Crit so that you no longer add +10 to Critical Injury rolls in the future. If they really mean "permanently" then it could mean your Agility stays at 2, you now have an old war wound that has changed how you can move (and maybe it aches when it's about to rain or you go into hyperspace), but it stays with you.

That's one possible interpretation, anyway.

The difficulty is for healing the Critical so the character won't get a +10 to all future critical rolls. The loss in Characteristic is permanent.

I would say until healed, otherwise it would not have a difficulty to heal.

I'm not sure about this. If you start with Agility 3 and you get the Gruesome Injury and roll Agility, your Agility drops to 2, as it says, "permanently". You now have 1 Critical Injury which means +10 to the roll for any future Crits until this one is healed.

The difficulty to heal covers using medicine to remove the Critical Injury but this *could* just mean removing the Crit so that you no longer add +10 to Critical Injury rolls in the future. If they really mean "permanently" then it could mean your Agility stays at 2, you now have an old war wound that has changed how you can move (and maybe it aches when it's about to rain or you go into hyperspace), but it stays with you.

That's one possible interpretation, anyway.

This was my interpretation as well. Otherwise it would be the same as the Horrific Injury and it specifically states "permanent"...

Yeah, then I definitely use RAI on this one

Yeah, then I definitely use RAI on this one

There's a reason it's pretty high on the Crit list, it's very serious. People get permanently injured in battles all the time.

If it happens, maybe you can save up for a cybernetic arm or leg or something!

Yeah, then I definitely use RAI on this one

Rule as Intended? It's intended to be permanent.

I assume you mean "houserule" it.

Yeah, then I definitely use RAI on this one

Rule as Intended? It's intended to be permanent.

I assume you mean "houserule" it.

Woooops that was a miss!

I was really tired, i meant "rule as interpreted" I guess. Got a bit messed up with the abbreviation.

I think its fairly simple, it says permanent, hence its permanent. There is not much interpretation needed really, it is stated fairly explicitly and clearly.

Yeah i know. I just don't care

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

There is always cybernetics.

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

Then I think we have different opinions about what constitutes a fun roleplaying experience. It's not a FPS or something where the only goal is to kill the enemy and be the best at it.

It's about drama and fun, creating a fun, dynamic experience with a lot of intensity and drama.

Definitely getting a war wound is dramatic, something that can change the character permanently--even if they get a cybernetic leg or something, they're still "different" than they were and the experience of that fight had an impact on them.

They'll probably be able to get free drinks at any cantina in the Outer Rim telling the story!

Perhaps the character themselves would be unhappy about it, they might even become depressed or angry--if a character had the Ambition of Expertise, to become the greatest at gunfighting or something, and they get a critical injury that blasts a hole in their leg and lowers their Agility permanently by 1, the character themselves might be upset about it and start to behave differently.

This could lead to great interactions with the other members of the party, it could change up the dynamic in interesting ways that make for a far more memorable RPG experience than if everything is optimized so the characters just become the best killing machines or skill monsters.

In the Walking Dead comics, Rick Grimes loses his hand, in "Empire" Luke loses his hand, Anakin loses his hand to Dooku, in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" Xander loses an eye. All things things surely have an impact on the character that makes the whole experience more dramatic in the long run.

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

After character creation you can't spend xp on characteristics. Implant/cybernetic would be needed to get it back which can be very funny Hey look! Two left arms!

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

After character creation you can't spend xp on characteristics. Implant/cybernetic would be needed to get it back which can be very funny Hey look! Two left arms!

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

After character creation you can't spend xp on characteristics. Implant/cybernetic would be needed to get it back which can be very funny Hey look! Two left arms!

I'm sure he's talking about the XP needed to get to and purchase Dedication.

Good point.

This is how I see it. It's just not fun to be permanently worse at a lot by an injury and have to pay a lot of experience to buy it back when you could place those xp on something more funny.

Then I think we have different opinions about what constitutes a fun roleplaying experience. It's not a FPS or something where the only goal is to kill the enemy and be the best at it.

It's about drama and fun, creating a fun, dynamic experience with a lot of intensity and drama.

Definitely getting a war wound is dramatic, something that can change the character permanently--even if they get a cybernetic leg or something, they're still "different" than they were and the experience of that fight had an impact on them.

They'll probably be able to get free drinks at any cantina in the Outer Rim telling the story!

Perhaps the character themselves would be unhappy about it, they might even become depressed or angry--if a character had the Ambition of Expertise, to become the greatest at gunfighting or something, and they get a critical injury that blasts a hole in their leg and lowers their Agility permanently by 1, the character themselves might be upset about it and start to behave differently.

This could lead to great interactions with the other members of the party, it could change up the dynamic in interesting ways that make for a far more memorable RPG experience than if everything is optimized so the characters just become the best killing machines or skill monsters.

In the Walking Dead comics, Rick Grimes loses his hand, in "Empire" Luke loses his hand, Anakin loses his hand to Dooku, in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" Xander loses an eye. All things things surely have an impact on the character that makes the whole experience more dramatic in the long run.

First of I'm not really happy that people think how I play my games in a certain way.

Second, half of my brain capacity disappears when writing in English.

I do agree on this, but in way difference. This is only really fun if you could either imagine your character going through this and emerge somewhat different and few people knows there character really well the first few sessions so such a dramatic change in character is hard to envision. The other way is choice and here i think the importance lies, e.g. that the player has the choice to instantly and permanently make their character worse in a main stat that guides not only much of the character in at least, early games but also from a rules perspective. As I see it, a dramatic hit (or other rule) that reduces the capacities of the PC, permanently, against the players will is not something that said player would think of as fun. But if it's accepted by the player or even thought of beforehand it would be beneficial towards the good experience of the game and increase in narrative fun.

First of I'm not really happy that people think how I play my games in a certain way.

Second, half of my brain capacity disappears when writing in English.

I do agree on this, but in way difference. This is only really fun if you could either imagine your character going through this and emerge somewhat different and few people knows there character really well the first few sessions so such a dramatic change in character is hard to envision. The other way is choice and here i think the importance lies, e.g. that the player has the choice to instantly and permanently make their character worse in a main stat that guides not only much of the character in at least, early games but also from a rules perspective. As I see it, a dramatic hit (or other rule) that reduces the capacities of the PC, permanently, against the players will is not something that said player would think of as fun. But if it's accepted by the player or even thought of beforehand it would be beneficial towards the good experience of the game and increase in narrative fun.

I apologize for being condescending, I didn't necessarily mean to say that you personally think of an RPG as an FPS.

You are of course welcome to play your own house rules however you wish. In my opinion, the Gruesome Injury is pretty high up on the Critical Injury chart for a reason, as it is a very severe consequence. If it comes up in my games I intend to play it as the designers intended.

So, two Gruesome Injury later...

It's random, it's shocking, it's a character development, it can never be undone, the character hero of our story has 0 in a Characteristic, but apparently it's more fun...

Discuss:

So, two Gruesome Injury later...

It's random, it's shocking, it's a character development, it can never be undone, the character hero of our story has 0 in a Characteristic, but apparently it's more fun...

Discuss:

Note that Gruesome Injury states that characteristics can only be lowered to 1.

Just listen and you can hear, "I used to be a PC like you until I took a blaster bolt to the knee."

I hear Corellian real-estate for retirees is all the rage since Alderaan got exploded... ;P