As a new GM I have a hard time grasping nuances that diverge from the rules. As a member of the "pistol and helmet club" in Car wars (According to the rules, you had to shoot yourself in the head twice, the first time while wearing a helmet, to kill yourself) i have had some issues with coup de grace actions. and trying to fudge rules

Case 1: A player tries to coerce an NPC by placing NPCs blaster to his chest as a show of intimidation. Coerce roll fails, NPC fires, NPC misses the shot, ( Y GG PP for dice pool)

My explanation was he missed because he WAS intimidated and was shaking

Case 2: One surviving minon decides to surrender. PC tries to knock him out with the butt of his slugthrower, Melee attack fails, twice.

My explination was the PC was not trained in combat very well and wasn't strong enough to actually do it.

Case 3: PC charges into a small room with a vibroaxe, target is behind a desk sitting in chair. PC misses.

the desk is cut in half, and the NPC target surrenders after seeing his desk do what could have happened to him

any ideas for coup de grace actions?

If it were a minion and he was helpless to defend himself, I'd say kill him with no roll. It's not worth the hassle just to kill off a minion. For Rivals or Nemeses I'd say let the PCs kill them off if they're truly helpless (unconscious, paralyzed, etc.) but otherwise it's a combat skill check as normal (albeit with some boost dice).

Coup de grace in combat is a different beast, however. I'd rule it takes a full round for one character to perform, and since he can't focus on defence anyone who attacks him get a substantial bonus to hit - two boost dice at the minimum.

Off the top of my head - just go with common sense and dice be damned. With examples one and two, I'd just deliver the blaster's damage and ignore the miss and/or just let the player drop the minion. With the third one, I might let it stand because it's so **** cool.

But yeah, if the target has surrendered, bypass whatever the game engine dictates and rule on it yourself.

Similar discussion in the other forum regarding stealth and killing helpless/sleeping NPCs. http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/87893-silent-kill/

Repeating my point from that thread I'd keep in mind the race and the PCs knowledge or lack of knowledge of that species anatomy via Knowledge Xenology.

Off the top of my head - just go with common sense and dice be damned. With examples one and two, I'd just deliver the blaster's damage and ignore the miss and/or just let the player drop the minion. With the third one, I might let it stand because it's so **** cool.

But yeah, if the target has surrendered, bypass whatever the game engine dictates and rule on it yourself.

One of the key rules of GMing is as follows: never roll dice for something that doesn't add to the drama of the game.

If the outcome is a foregone conclusion (e.g., pulling the trigger when you've got a blaster pointed at the head of someone who's tied up), don't roll the dice, because if you do get a bad result, you're left having to suspend the disbelief of everyone at the table by finding some way to have things go wrong.

Well, executing a prisoner is much different than killing a sleeping guard while his buddies are playing pazaak at a nearby table. I probably wouldn't make them roll for the former, but the latter could have so many juicy complications...

Well, executing a prisoner is much different than killing a sleeping guard while his buddies are playing pazaak at a nearby table. I probably wouldn't make them roll for the former, but the latter could have so many juicy complications...

In the latter example I wouldn't have them roll for the attack, but I'd definitely make them roll a stealth check. In a narrative system. I feel coup de grâce shouldn't be something that needs to be rolled for against a helpless opponent. Much like a cutscene in a video game, in normal play everyone can take gun shots and only take hit point damage. In an incompetent cutscene however a single bullet is enough to kill anyone.

As has been stated, there is a time for rolling and a time for just adjudicating.

Case 1: A player tries to coerce an NPC by placing NPCs blaster to his chest as a show of intimidation. Coerce roll fails, NPC fires, NPC misses the shot, ( Y GG PP for dice pool)

My explanation was he missed because he WAS intimidated and was shaking

You could roll here just because you don't necessarily want to outright kill a PC. But if the NPC has the drop on a PC, I would rule that there is no difficulty dice (except from other sources, not for the initial action), and Critical activation is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1). This will generally put the PC in a lot of pain, depending on the roll.

Case 2: One surviving minon decides to surrender. PC tries to knock him out with the butt of his slugthrower, Melee attack fails, twice.

My explination was the PC was not trained in combat very well and wasn't strong enough to actually do it.

Something like this I would not even bother rolling. Enemy has already surrendered, combat is over. Its just description at that point.

Case 3: PC charges into a small room with a vibroaxe, target is behind a desk sitting in chair. PC misses.

the desk is cut in half, and the NPC target surrenders after seeing his desk do what could have happened to him

Again, combat is over, no rolls needed.

I agree with Mouthymerc. One of the principles I try to follow as a GM is from the Burning Wheel RPG - "say yes or roll the dice". The purpose of dice in almost any RPG is to help determine what happens when a character (PC or NPC) does something with multiple possible outcomes. That means, to me, when there is only one likely outcome, there is no need to roll the dice.

So, for example, if a PC has a gun to an NPC's head, with no other threats around, it is very unlikely that he/she will fail to kill the NPC. If I want to introduce the possibility, I'd probably use a Destiny Point to save the NPC instead of leaving it to the dice - for example, I could say "oops, your weapon is out of ammo!" or "Turns out this alien species doesn't have any vital organs in its head!" or whatever else I need. Otherwise, I'd say "Bang, the NPC dies in a ratings-appropriate quantity of bloodshed".

As a new GM I have a hard time grasping nuances that diverge from the rules. As a member of the "pistol and helmet club" in Car wars (According to the rules, you had to shoot yourself in the head twice, the first time while wearing a helmet, to kill yourself) i have had some issues with coup de grace actions. and trying to fudge rules

Case 1: A player tries to coerce an NPC by placing NPCs blaster to his chest as a show of intimidation. Coerce roll fails, NPC fires, NPC misses the shot, ( Y GG PP for dice pool)

My explanation was he missed because he WAS intimidated and was shaking

Case 2: One surviving minon decides to surrender. PC tries to knock him out with the butt of his slugthrower, Melee attack fails, twice.

My explination was the PC was not trained in combat very well and wasn't strong enough to actually do it.

Case 3: PC charges into a small room with a vibroaxe, target is behind a desk sitting in chair. PC misses.

the desk is cut in half, and the NPC target surrenders after seeing his desk do what could have happened to him

any ideas for coup de grace actions?

In case 1 the PC was taunting the NPC by placing the NPS's gun on his chest as I understand it? It would depend on what else was going on really. If said NPC was important, I'd probably just pull the trigger, deal the damage, and go into rounds from there, no roll necessary. Not outright death, but wounds surely.

Case 2: no roll required. the minion is rendered unconcious. As we are out of rounds, keeping track of actions isn't really important.

Case 3: sounds like a surpirse round of combat to me. Depending on the target's disposition, surrender/retalliation/mockery could all result, but I wouldn't consider that a coup de grace.

As far as in rounds is concerned, I'd consider it an action that required the acting character to be engaged with a helpless target. I'd define helpless as someone incapable of defending themselves. Incapable is not the same as untrained. A small child can run away, but an unconscious/stunned/wounded individual really cannot.

I'd have them roll however I'd ignore Failures and Successes unless there was a few Threats or a Despair result (I may have added a DS point depending on the situation), the shot would automatically create a mortal wound.

If there were a couple of Threats maybe the gun jams or a witness shows up or he moves somehow, something that fits the scene, then I'd go with the roll - basically something happened to screw up the kill.

It it's a Despair, well who knows...

I agree with Mouthymerc. One of the principles I try to follow as a GM is from the Burning Wheel RPG - "say yes or roll the dice". The purpose of dice in almost any RPG is to help determine what happens when a character (PC or NPC) does something with multiple possible outcomes. That means, to me, when there is only one likely outcome, there is no need to roll the dice.

So, for example, if a PC has a gun to an NPC's head, with no other threats around, it is very unlikely that he/she will fail to kill the NPC. If I want to introduce the possibility, I'd probably use a Destiny Point to save the NPC instead of leaving it to the dice - for example, I could say "oops, your weapon is out of ammo!" or "Turns out this alien species doesn't have any vital organs in its head!" or whatever else I need. Otherwise, I'd say "Bang, the NPC dies in a ratings-appropriate quantity of bloodshed".

Really just want to support this approach. Out of combat if the fail just means they'll do it again let them pass.