This saturday I played the game for the second time. This session was with 3 players.

On the winter of 5th year, two players (blue and black) were tied with the other (yelow) about 4 points behind them, on the military track, yelow was on 4, blue on 2 and black on 0. When the enemy shows up, it was the Dragon, with strenght of 9.

Black, with a defense of 4 from the buildings, have a few chances, blue had 5 defense from buildings (I think), and yelow had about 4 points from the buildings. I'm not sure about the values, but to be short, the only chance for blue to loose was a 1 on the the king's military aid, and this was what we got. The game was decided on this roll of the dice.

Magoo said:

There is a factor of risk and reward in the game and I am perfectly fine with it. Without the chance to lose, there would be no point in building up the military. In the expansion there will be alternatives to it (with chips representing what is rolled) though if you don't like it. Then you can control your destiny.

At the beginning of the year everyone knows what the level of the attack will be. Part of the game, I believe, that works very well is the option to cover your back and make sure you have the soldiers in place or to risk that the King will provide you with the cannon fodder you are missing and go for that more expensive building instead!

Magoo said:

the game was lost for yellow because he was 4 points behind before the last battle (not necessary becasue of the roll). i really like the amount of luck in kingsburg, not to much and not to little. your milage may vary of course...

I can understand the frustration of losing a game on a single die roll. However, overall, I feel this dice game has more "control" than any other dice game I can think of. Don Greenwood once said, in the Avalon Hill General "There are no luck factors where decisions are concerned. You either make the right decisions, and increase your chances of winning, or make the wrong ones." (I'm paraphrasing, but I think that's pretty close to what he wrote concerning dice and decisions in the issue on "Dinosaurs of the Lost World".) Point being: once you learn the game, you'll be able to make the best decisions regarding your dice placements.

TK

I think and feel that kingsburg has not too much luck and enough catch up algorithms and rewards for low die roles. In combat you can always play save with buildings and soldiers, so that no die role can make you loose. If you pla with risk, than dont bark about bad luck

Compared to some either dice games, particularly one where you are settling an island, I find Kingsburg to be much much better in terms of luck. You can mitigate your bad luck to some degree, but if you get lucky you will succeed more. I prefer to think of this game as resource management rather than a building game. If you manage resources correctly, with just a hint of luck, you should be able to build something every turn. Whether or not you want to is the question. I find Kingsburg asks the question, "One cupcake now, or two cupcakes later?" constantly. This is compounded by other players moving their victory point markers.

There is also the false reasoning that this game came down to "one dice roll". It was the LAST roll sure, but every other roll up to this one affected the game and hass to be counted. So maybe the players who lost actually had some GREAT rolls earlier that put them in position to feel "cheated" when that "one roll" went against them. But it is never the case. You have to take the game as a whole, and so be it if it does indeed hinge on the last roll. There is always a "moment" in a game that is close be it beginning, middle or end. In this case it was the end...just LOOKS more dramatic.

If in one game there is mechanics that let you moderate the dice I don't think this is luck. It's your problem that in some important part of the game you can't moderate the dice in your famour. I don't know what is the case with Kingsburg but I'm sure it's not "just" a single dice roll!

Luck is a factor as far as the roll of the die but not the biggest part of it. Like others have stated it really comes down to the choices you make. I have see in the several games my group has played that someone who has a rather large lead in points has lost in the final round due to poor planning especially when it came to fighting during winter. Never underestimate the winter season.

I agree with the others. The luck factor is present, but it's the choice of how you will make the best of what you roll that usually decides the games in my group.

This thread might be good for people who don't like the soldier die roll:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/366312

That module sounds great! I always found that the die roll was too random for this particular mechanic.

Granted, I have only played Kingsburg once, but I found that if you have poor die rolls (aka consistently low) you have a hard time winning, similar to an island settling game...

Xlyce said:

We were hoping we did a little better than the island settling game... I still think we did. Believe me or not, I have seen experienced Kingsburg players winning games (or at worst going really close to winning) even with very poor average die rolls.

I would suggest you to maybe play more than once... or just wait for the expansion. As a worning, the player with more experience and/or skills will very often win even with poor rolls also playing with the expansion, however.

I don't think there is too much luck involved. It never comes down to just one die roll that decides the winner. Its all a balancing act. Making the best use of what you roll is the key to this game. In my experience, with the base game you spend more time building up an army because of the random die roll. You won't know until the roll what your total strength is. Whereas with the Soldier tokens, you don't rely on chance as much. In essence, you are in control of your own destiny when you use the Soldier tokens. You can choose how many extra troops to commit, even if you know it may not be enough. So this allows you to focus more on getting resources and buildings, rather than just focusing on the military track. In my game group the other night, we discussed this and all seemed to agree on this. So I don't think its just me that has come to that conclusion.

I think you have to first realise that although this game is a LIGHT work placement game it is still that. Games like this very much favor experience over just blind luck and randomness. Get a few more games in and plan out your strategy for the late game earlier than the last moment.

i love the balance in kingsburg between choosing military buildings early on or building ur way to the town hall. then later on going 4 a wizard's guild over religious buildings worth more v.p. this also makes seeign the enemy card during the yr a nice bonus 2 get hold of. i dont see how u can be annoyed at the game being decided on a single roll when the entire game has been played with rolls and so there was a reason those 2 players were in a position 2 win

My group recently played this, and my dice rolls were so bad that I think I only rolled double digits about four times the entire game. We had four players and I still only finished about five points behind the leaders. I write leaders because, oddly enough, the other three tied for the win. Even though my rolls were mostly unlucky, I don't feel like the game is too dependent on luck. Most of the time you can overcome by smart decisions.

Our game group has played this game a ton with expansion. Although die rolls do play apart in the out come of the game, this one of our most competitive games we play. Luck has nothing to do with it. This is a planning and skill game. The people who do well at this game seem to do well every time. The people who struggle can get lucky once in awhile, but don't win very often.

If you equal skilled players then a die roll at the end of the game can make the difference, but putting yourself in position to win was the key.

The expansion takes some die rolls out of the game and would be advised if you want less die rolling.

Hope that helps.

sounds like a great game , i'm tempted .

Hi everyone.

This is a great game I recently discovered thanks to a good friend....

I played it in 2, 3 and 4 players games and luck it's not that dominant as it seems...Ok, well...With good dice you can get some good stuff, but that's not always true, especially if you play with funny players that don't play just for themselves but a bit AGAINST...

I won a game where I got horrible results...as well as a game where I started well but lost a powerful building...And so did a friend of mine...Another one lost 1 point behind me after playin' with a low number of buildings and bad rolls...Lost for a bad choice in the final...

So, luck is important, but that's a game and I prefer a bit of "hey, WTF?" than classic german game where the most emotional thing you can do is uncover the pieces. (with all due respect...I like some "placement" games, but I like the luck-factor of rollin' some dice. ).

I'm sorry but I call BS!

Ok Kingsburg IS a game of luck. In fact the more experience you have with the game and the more experienced group you have at the table the more luck plays a role in deciding the game (not less as is being suggested here).

Me and my group have played this game a ton, everyone has lots of experience with the game and even with the expansion there are plenty of different routes possible but at this point there are no "decisions" you can make to out play someone in the group. Everyone knows every little nook and cranny of the game and what it basically all boils down to is CAN YOU ROLL WHAT YOU NEED consistently. If you do and the other players don't its a 100% guarantee you will win and there is no skill, strategy, tactic or action you can take, even collectively as a group to prevent a player from winning who rolls well. At least not in my particular group where everyone knows the ins and outs of the game, so this idea that with "experience" luck plays less and less of a role in the game is completely ridiculous, its the exact opposite.

The ONLY time luck doesn't play a role in this game is when your playing with an inexperienced group.