http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/x-wing/news/wave3/darth-vader.png

im still pinching myself a bit with the Darth Vader upgrade. It seems pretty insanely good on a Bounty Hunter (or any Slave1 ship for that matter).

The fact that its is reusable is just scary.

If im reading the card correctly, you can turn a missed attack into a crit or inflict an extra crit on top of damage from an attack that hits.

I can see BHunters seeing even more play with Vader on the scene.

thoughts?

Better on a cheap shuttle.

eeeh i dont know. any time i see a "take (x amount) of damage" on a card i start worrying. plus taking two damage for a crit is high price. i dont think it will be used much, and if it is it might be for last shot end game senarious

Ya I saw that. I used a naked BH with Vader, and another BH with HLC and some random other ships. My thought was just to fly the BHV straight into the fight, shooting and criting till he died. I never got to use Vader, but the tactic worked. Once my opponent saw Vader, he went the other way, I took half the field away from him, I pushed him to the range of my other ships. Vs imperial players, Vader is a good upgrade. For rebels, you have to wait till the shields are gone or the crit is usless, IMO.

Ya I saw that. I used a naked BH with Vader, and another BH with HLC and some random other ships. My thought was just to fly the BHV straight into the fight, shooting and criting till he died. I never got to use Vader, but the tactic worked. Once my opponent saw Vader, he went the other way, I took half the field away from him, I pushed him to the range of my other ships. Vs imperial players, Vader is a good upgrade. For rebels, you have to wait till the shields are gone or the crit is usless, IMO.

Doesn't it bypass shields as per proton bomb? Otherwise, doesn't the Darth effect on the imperial ship only knock two shields off as well?

Idk, I have discussed this with others, we have agreed it follows the damage rules. But we have to wait for FFG to release the Wave 3 FAQ on this card

You don't need to miss to use it just attack a ship. It is a good card to start using late in the game to finish ships off. However I don't think it gets around shields. It says "to cause that ship to suffer one critical damage." I would think you'd have to eat shields first.

It does talk about damage and not cards so I would say that it follows regular rules and deals on shields first.

I agree, it does NOT go through shields. The difference is Proton Bombs say "deal a faceup damaage card" which bypasses all the rules about dealing damage and skips to the end. This says deals a critical damage result, which then follows the normal path for damage being taken (aka does not bypass shields).

I dislike the idea of suffering two damage to inflict 1 crit on the enemy. In most cases I can see this being worse for the imperial player.

I think it will come down to being able to use it correctly. I used it but never used it. I used it as a kamikaze pilot, a 38 pt kamikaze. Unless your ships is suppose to dies, you need to know when to use it.

IMO the best way to use the Vader card will be to take out a ship that is already damaged so they don't get to fly another round.

Example:

Your BH lands a couple hits on an already damaged Wedge, removing his last shield token and dealing him 1 damage card. BH then uses vader to deal a crit to Wedge. Hopefully that crit is the 2 damage one and wedge is off the board before the next round. Or maybe wedge gets dealt the crit that nerfs his PS so he is easy to take out next round before he gets to attack. Even better to use the Vader card if you get the ship down to one last hull point. Guaranteed of the board.

In those circumstances i think it is definitely worth it to use Vader and take the 2 damage penalty. But i don't think i will just sacrifice two damage willy-nilly to deal a crit that has little to no chance of taking out a ship, and certanly not if that crit will be taken on a shield and therefore only 1 damage.

But i also think a ship carrying this card becomes a priority target. If you deal enough damage to the firespray or Lambda, it makes it tough for your opponent to make the call to sacrifice even more hull points voluntarily.

Yeah, I don't think using the ability every round is going to be the way to go. But I can see using it early (against crit-susceptible targets... my feeling is that it SHOULD go through shields, but I agree that's not what the wording suggests) to gain an early advantage and temporarily take enemy ships out of the fight, or late, to finish them off. Like proximity mines, it seems like the kind of thing your opponent MIGHT forget that you have, if you don't use it often. And then, when it's too late...

The alternative is that mentioned above: Vader either scares the enemy away OR draws a lot of their fire. Either of them could be seen as a win.

Assuming it doesn't work against shields....

It will be wicked against Imps. A lot of non-shielded targets where laying down a critical on them hit or miss for 2 damage (against shields) is a very nice gamble. 2 damage possible, making them waste turns fixing stuff, or wasting an attack, all very effective cards to pull.

One decent combo would be putting him on a low level shuttle with some heavy hitters. The heavy hitters make the first shots to bypass shields and then Vader can be used to pick or choose his attack targets. Think about it, he can give you a no fail critical at range 3 even if you miss. Some high value target that your heavy hitters didn't finish off, Vader's shuttle can make the attack. If the shuttle hits, good job, if it misses, or doesn't do enough damage, Vader can step in to cripple or kill that target.

The problem will be if its worth the points to bring this gimmicky ability into play? Not likely.

If it can bypass shields, then things change the the card become extremely valuable.

People should not think of Vader as a passenger as an auto-cast skill. It is a situational skill. You don't cast Heal on a friendly character that is at full hit points, do you?

If it can bypass shields, then things change the the card become extremely valuable.

Which is why (in addition to the card text not reading that way) i think it doesn't. Who would ever leave vader at home if this thing bypasses shields? Its neat that the proton bomb does so, but it is a one shot weapon that you have to drop at an effective location for it to work. If Vader bypassed shields you could kill an A-wing in 2 rounds maximum every time, possibly in 1. An x-wing would go down in 3 rounds max. Sure some fancy flying with that A-wing or x-wing would make it possible for you to stay out of the arcs so vader couldn't be used, but then Rebels spend all day running from the imps instead of attacking. No way does this thing bypass shields. That would be a true game ruiner

You're probably right, but keep in mind that you're taking *6* damage yourself in that X-wing example you just gave. That's 60% of the damage the Lambda or the Firespray can take! How much longer do you think Vader's going to survive in that situation?

You're probably right, but keep in mind that you're taking *6* damage yourself in that X-wing example you just gave. That's 60% of the damage the Lambda or the Firespray can take! How much longer do you think Vader's going to survive in that situation?

True. But 3 vaders is the maximum that would be needed. It could be done in 2 if one is a direct hit. A-wing in 1 obviously. Not to mention future ships that may have a low hull value like a Z-95. Would I sacrifice 2 shield to have a 21% chance at a 1 shot kill on an a-wing. Probably. Or even have a pretty good chance at giving a pilot like Wedge or Han a crit that will seriously nerf him on the first round of the game. I'd do that every time.

I'm not making the rules for this game and certainly not as much of an expert or experienced player as some of you, but i just can't see FFG making it work that way if they don't want to anger a lot of players.

This may have already been answered elsewhere, but I thought I would ask:

It says you can "cause that ship to suffer 1 critical damage."

Does that ship then get a face-up damage card regardless of shields (like the proton bomb), or would it just lose a shield token?

Also, is there is a reason the write out "critical damage" on this card instead of using the open hit graphic?

EDIT: I see that this question is already being discussed. I'll just sit back and read the responses now.

I agree, it does NOT go through shields. The difference is Proton Bombs say "deal a faceup damaage card" which bypasses all the rules about dealing damage and skips to the end. This says deals a critical damage result, which then follows the normal path for damage being taken (aka does not bypass shields).

Again, if this were ruled to bypass shields FFG would have broken from their own rules. The ONLY reason proton bombs bypass shields is because it does not cause the ship to "suffer damage". In fact Proton Bombs technically dont do any damage, they just cause every ship in range to gain a faceup damage card (which can only normally happen for suffering a critical hit with no shields left).

In fact, if Darth's ability to deal a critical goes through shields, then so does the cost, since it is worded exactly the same way...

I think Darth is interesting, but too expensive. If he had been 1 point, then I could see taking him for the random ability to do bonus damage when you really needed it. At 3 points its just so hard to justify, especially since there are other upgrades that are more useful for the same cost.

His ability is powerful, but obviously best at finishing off ships, not really for poking them every attack, since you are often going to suffer more. The example where someone took it and your opponent avoided it; your opponent playing to your strategy (which people wont do in general). I would have ignored/killed it since that puts it on you to either give me free damage or waste 3 points, both of which are in my benefit.

Pg 16 of Main Rulebook

Pg 16 of Main Rulebook

Suffering Damage

Ships can suffer damage from different sources, such

as being hit during combat or by an effect or card

ability. Damage cards track how much damage each

ship has suffered and are used to determine if the ship

has been destroyed (see “Destroying Ships”).

When a ship suffers damage or critical damage,

it suffers them one at a time following these

steps. The ship must suffer all normal damage before

suffering any critical damage.

1. Reduce Shields: If there are any shield

tokens remaining on the ship’s card, remove one

of the tokens and skip Step 2. If there are no

shield tokens, proceed to Step 2 below.

2. Damage Hull: Deal one Damage card to the

ship based on the type of damage it suffered.

If the ship suffered damage (such as from a

result), place the Damage card facedown next

to the ship’s card. If the ship suffered critical

damage (such as from a result), place the

Damage card faceup next to the ship’s card

(see “Critical Damage” below).

That makes sense to me.

So with that, Vader would be most valuable when used against targets with no, or already depleted, shields.

For someone who is used to timing in their strats while gaming, this Vader is going to be kiler.

Nothing like upseting an opponents plodding strategy by making your guys suffer to get the job done.

Even though you are taking damage, you are in control. You are dictating and acting, they are reacting. You want to be calling the shots whenever you can, becuase it upsets their plan so you can do yours.

Sort of like flying into another ship just to take scew their actions, or if you have the upgrade, you are still able to do an action while doing that. Invaluable and priceless.

Even though you are taking damage, you are in control. You are dictating and acting, they are reacting. You want to be calling the shots whenever you can, becuase it upsets their plan so you can do yours.

This is the beauty and purpose behind the card in my opinion. To sacrifice 2 shields/hull to do critical damage in a critical game changing situation. Sure some players will use this card in other situations, but this is what i think it was designed to do and when it will be most effective

I think what will make this card so good is that you attack first with your 3 dice (or HLC or whatever) and Then you can use Vader. Vader's card states that after you perform an attack you can do that - so you attack with 3 dice, take out their shields, and then cause a crit to happen on their unprotected hull.

It's against the ship you have already attacked. So it's a sure 1 extra damage to your dice roll if you so choose