Hi all, we've just posted up the first update to the beta. You can find it on the Support page, so please dive in and start testing it!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4288

We will not have an update next week, as we'll be on the bus to Gencon! If you'll be attending, we'd love to hear from you in person about Dark Heresy Second Edition. We'll be in Room 122 running Dark Heresy and more there, so please drop bye and say hi!

Keep the feedback coming, and thanks everyone for all your comments and suggestions. Don't fret if you didn't see something you contacted us about in this first update; we will be covering all aspects of the game in coming weeks so there will be more to come. Look for the second update once we return week after next.

The download appears to redirect to a 404.

Also, I'm super jealous of everyone going to Gencon. Don't be too harsh on FFG, guys!

Perhaps its my browser but I can't get to the file yet.

Thank you again for the work on this.

The link leads to a 404'd page.

Yep, working on it now. Tech-Priests chanting and burning incense.

OK, try it now folks.

Its up!

Woohoo, now to pour over this on my phone in squint-o-vision while I'm out and about for the night.

Wow. FFG really hates people using Las weapons.

People complained about the wounds system greatly favouring high ROF over high damage. So FFG decides that overcharge should lower the las weapons ROF so that nobody ever uses it.

People complained about sniper weapons being unable to kill in a single shot. So the long-las has its damage reduced, while they seem to have listend regarding the sniper rifle.

Hot-shots had their pen increase. At the cost of losing ammo capacity.

Tell me, after this change, is there any reason to use a Las weapon at all ?

After being improved an autogun using standard ammo outperforms the lasgun in all areas but reliability, but fate points mean that reliablility doesn't matter. Storm bolter outperforms the hot-shot lasgun even if you ignore the effects of storm and tearing.

If you don't want anyone to use las weapons don't include them in the core rulebook . Use the space they take up for something players will use.

Was it really nessacary to move Storm from a general weapon quality to something that needs to be repeated on every single storm weapon ?

I really like the idea of using the Sb for Pen on chain weapons. Makes sense. I'm also not quite as hateful of las weapons, though I did get a laugh out the complaint that lasguns don't compare favourably to storm bolters.

I really like the idea of using the Sb for Pen on chain weapons. Makes sense. I'm also not quite as hateful of las weapons, though I did get a laugh out the complaint that lasguns don't compare favourably to storm bolters.

I compared the two because their availability is so similar. If your influence is high enough to get a hotshot lasgun a stormbolter isn't much harder. So there isn't any reason to use the hotshot lasgun.

If you're trying to go undercover in an area with lower grades of weaponry, the hotshot will stand out as being different to the las and SP weapons used by the people you are trying to blend in with.

If there was a greater difference in availability, or a smaller difference in capability, I'd be happy. If they had distinct differences, like the bolter having the higher punch but the hotshot lasgun having a larger clip I'd be happy.

I'm just not happy when one is a straight upgrade of the other.

Though the sniper rifle/long-las comparison is the one that annoys me the most.

I like the idea of using your Perception Bonus on weapons requiring accuracy (like the long-las, or sniper rifle), it makes a lot of sense to me (you're looking for weak spots), but I think there should perhaps be a base score that your Perception Bonus adds to, since even if you aren't perceptive, the bullet should still go straight through the likes of Hive Leathers or Feudal Armour.

I'd suggest increasing the Penetration to 2+Perception Bonus.

I like the idea of using your Perception Bonus on weapons requiring accuracy (like the long-las, or sniper rifle), it makes a lot of sense to me (you're looking for weak spots), but I think there should perhaps be a base score that your Perception Bonus adds to, since even if you aren't perceptive, the bullet should still go straight through the likes of Hive Leathers or Feudal Armour.

I'd suggest increasing the Penetration to 2+Perception Bonus.

All but the most dull-minded will have a Perception Bonus of at least 3. That's enough to penetrate hive leathers and almost enough to get through Feudal Armour. Meanwhile, only the most perceptive of all will be able to pierce power armour.

I think keeping it as just the Perception Bonus seems better balanced and simpler to remember. Keep it as-is.

But a sniper's bullet shouldn't be getting stopped by leathers. It really shouldn't, no matter how perceptive you are.

I also wonder if they should be 1d10+10 with Tearing, rather than just 2d10 - there's a hell of a lot of room for whiff with 2d10.

First, let me just say Bravo on finally doing something for Plasma Weapon Damage. Don't you ever dare listen to whomever is trying to dial that stuff back. It's supposed to hit harder than Pulse, and hadn't since the RT pulse weapons were used against characters in BC.

Any reason why storm gets deleted though? We all know you'll be putting that stuff right back in eventually. Just seems odd to add it manually all the time when the quality was there.

That said, the AP costs on the weapons remains very iffy.

Why/How exactly is a weapon requiring some time to recharge its capacitors also costing you additional actions to fire? Not only does this make no sense if you've got the weapon already powered up, ready to fire, and do something like quickdraw, but it also brings significant questions with the sniper type weapons as to why one is spending two or three actions just to press the trigger. Especially when you can't at least aim for free as the weapon charges up - are we standing up with our longlas, hooking it up to our belt, shoving our foot in a stirrup near the tip of the barrel and cranking it like a crossbow? Or is any slow rate of fire involved rather a function of slowly recharging capacitors?

Here's what I suggest: Weapons with a fractional rate of fire can have "Recovery". This special quality indicates that certain actions may be performed as part of the firing sequence, including aiming, bracing, setting a called shot or delay. Only one additional action at a time of course, and never costing more than Denominator-1. So a 1/2 weapon has a single AP you can spend on aiming or whatever. Not for moving, not for casting, but while it powers up, you can at least line up the shot.

This way you don't need to pick your nose for half your turn just because a Long-Las takes a second to greenlight another shot. If you're spending lots of AP because the weapon unleashes a nonstop hail of rockets for five seconds, you don't get recovery.

Overcharge change has good and bad: the [ib] version is genius, but 'single shot only' doesn't really work there; the idea is to clean out your ammo supply in exchange for a bit of extra power, not turn your weapon into a glorified lasmusket. The Hotshot Pistol should have a little more damage [the hotshots as a whole need to be worth their bloody rarity, honestly. It's hard to justify them being handed to elite units that won't get much chances to resupply

when they have such piddling ammo capacity and are less capable than equally common weapons, or more common ones with special ammo [still no less common than the hotshot with said rounds though].

The problem, as it has always been for the Hellguns in this system, is that getting through armor is okay and all, but if you bounce off because of toughness as if that space marine rookie had invulnerability saves, it gets problematic.

Switching Ab to WSb in some melee weapons does NOT change the fact that we're looking at potentially 8+ attacks PER ACTION POINT in later ranks with sword-types, while other weapons are still dishing out 2, or possibly just one attack... and at the cost of several AP. To put it bluntly, this disparity will make the pathfinder "longbows > anything ranged > throwing rocks off the ground > adding strength bonus to urinating on the target > crossbows" one look like idealized perfect balance. Consider that the one wielding that sword is probably packed with enough mobility to cross the short range of a lasgun in one or two AP.

A lot of good stuff in the new DH, and even in this update; just, gotta point the glaring issues like we're supposed to, right?

So plasma weapons have a great pen than the melta gun?

It fixes weapons....kinda for me.

The new wounds tables...seems like the first hit on any location is unlikely to cause any significant worry, which is both good and bad.

But you've still not fixed my big issues with V2 (and probably can't without an almost full rewrite) so will continue to play V1.

But a sniper's bullet shouldn't be getting stopped by leathers. It really shouldn't, no matter how perceptive you are.

I also wonder if they should be 1d10+10 with Tearing, rather than just 2d10 - there's a hell of a lot of room for whiff with 2d10.

Does it matter though ?

The sniper rifle isn't going to be 1-shotting enemies through damage. It's going to be 1-shotting them because, with Vengance(8) and two dice, it has a 51% chance to deal a critical wound which is an instant kill on anything that isn't a Master enemy.

Certainly steps in the right direction, although there are still some buggy things going on, like the lack of ability to use the Eviscerator while moving. Also, psychic powers are still lackluster compared to weapons.

Long Las has it rough though, given it has not vengeance, no longer has good'ol Felling, and can't hope to do more than 19 damage on an overcharge. You ain't killin people quick with that.

Something I suggested over on 4chan as the idea hit me earlier; For the wound penalties, why not apply EITHER the Pen of the weapon OR the number of hits suffered [This may have to be 2x, numbers need testing], whichever is higher, as the penalty?

This would mean that a Lasgun that plinks you three times for one measly wound, because it rolled like, triple 9s, doesn't automatically mean that if you're shot again by it next turn you'll take +15 to everything.

It would also mean that being hit by plasma or melta would make you far more vulnerable than being hit three times by an autogun for a fraction of the damage. If you survived a hit of melta, the next shot's problem isn't getting through your armor, muscle and bone to the sweet sweet vitals deep inside, they need to worry more about accidentally missing because they shot you through the gaping hole it left behind.

Having now tested the system with two different groups, the list of complaints is unfortunately long...

RoF rules, one-shots are "ignored"

Where's my money? Player: "I want a melta gun. GM: "Roll" end of story... no saving up for "that" gun or gadget. This system removes the roleplaying aspects of aquiring hard to come by equipment (unless I read it wrong)

Simple clothing stopping shots... not good.

The "pin-prick explosion" persists

Not compatible with the 3 feet of books already bought for "the old" system.

Wound system in general

Honestly, this entire thing needs a rewrite, compatible with the old ways, or I won't be spending money on it.

Where's my money? Player: "I want a melta gun. GM: "Roll" end of story... no saving up for "that" gun or gadget. This system removes the roleplaying aspects of aquiring hard to come by equipment (unless I read it wrong)

That's honestly just down to lackluster GMing. You can do things almost exactly like they were in the old system. Using Inquiry to hunt down dealers, bartering with them etc. The only difference is you're actually doing the final deed with a roll, not thrones (which were a fairly illogical concept in terms of the 40k universe anyway).

Where's my money? Player: "I want a melta gun. GM: "Roll" end of story... no saving up for "that" gun or gadget. This system removes the roleplaying aspects of aquiring hard to come by equipment (unless I read it wrong)

That's honestly just down to lackluster GMing. You can do things almost exactly like they were in the old system. Using Inquiry to hunt down dealers, bartering with them etc. The only difference is you're actually doing the final deed with a roll, not thrones (which were a fairly illogical concept in terms of the 40k universe anyway).

And besides, if a player wants to save up there's nothing saying that they can't. It is relatively easy to give the players +5 for a small stash of money or the like.

no saving up for "that" gun or gadget.

At the same time, ranged weapons above SP/Las and melee weapons above chain were unaffordable unless the GM grants extra income. If the GM sticks to the one months pay per 400xp the book seems to recommend, a lot of stuff is simply unaffordable.

no saving up for "that" gun or gadget.

At the same time, ranged weapons above SP/Las and melee weapons above chain were unaffordable unless the GM grants extra income. If the GM sticks to the one months pay per 400xp the book seems to recommend, a lot of stuff is simply unaffordable.

And so the players had to become creative, pooling resources, stealing, selling equipment bartering services and/or favours... The money mechanic simply adds another dimension to the game (followed by roleplaying and not "Roll-playing")

You still had to find/gain access to the equipment (like now) but your funds are now so abstract that a player can sit there and wonder "Why can i buy a plasma gun, but not a fine bottle of amasec?" GM: You are out of cash. Player: Oh! I need 5 reloads for the plasma and a rocket launcher *rolls* GM: "All good". Player: Da FuQ?

Neither the groups I play with, or myself for that matter, need this as an abstract.

Made sense in BC and DW... We kept the requisition system of OW, but let the currency run parallel to it. (Guardsman tries to requisition a meltagun and fails, Guardsman goes hunting on the black market with cash in hand.)

This is ofc a matter of taste, my players and I just hate this...too abstract, removes a dimension of the game, nothing beneficial gained (perhaps simplicity, but this is not needed in our case).

I do however enjoy reading how others find the system, so keep it up, your opinions are always welcome.

And that is what i'll say about that =)

Where's my money? Player: "I want a melta gun. GM: "Roll" end of story... no saving up for "that" gun or gadget. This system removes the roleplaying aspects of aquiring hard to come by equipment (unless I read it wrong)

Honestly, I kinda like this. I wasn't a fan of the acquisition system to begin with, but I've come around and accepted it as a more faithful interpretation of my vision of the 40k setting.

Essentially, there is no meltagun to save up for. It's not like you can just walk into a store and ask for a meltagun. They are military issue and really hard to come by. The easiest way to acquiring a meltagun should be to make really good friends with your boss and have him draw on his resources to get you the weapon.

The second best way would be to find it on the black market, but this should be a pretty significant undertaking that takes a lot of roleplaying to even locate a seller (hint: if it's rare enough, there might only be a few planets in the sector that even has a chance of having one). This would be the "roleplaying aspect". Since there's no default monetary system, you'll expand the DH1 "roleplaying aspect" (and I assume that, by "roleplaying aspect" you mean something other than "not spending my thrones for a long time") into also involving securing whatever kind of payment or favour the seller want in return. That's even more "roleplay aspect" than before. That's a good thing!

The third way would be to, you know, break into an Imperial Guard facility and steal their cache of meltaguns. Good luck!

Where's my money? Player: "I want a melta gun. GM: "Roll" end of story... no saving up for "that" gun or gadget. This system removes the roleplaying aspects of aquiring hard to come by equipment (unless I read it wrong)

Honestly, I kinda like this. I wasn't a fan of the acquisition system to begin with, but I've come around and accepted it as a more faithful interpretation of my vision of the 40k setting.

Essentially, there is no meltagun to save up for. It's not like you can just walk into a store and ask for a meltagun. They are military issue and really hard to come by. The easiest way to acquiring a meltagun should be to make really good friends with your boss and have him draw on his resources to get you the weapon.

The second best way would be to find it on the black market, but this should be a pretty significant undertaking that takes a lot of roleplaying to even locate a seller (hint: if it's rare enough, there might only be a few planets in the sector that even has a chance of having one). This would be the "roleplaying aspect". Since there's no default monetary system, you'll expand the DH1 "roleplaying aspect" (and I assume that, by "roleplaying aspect" you mean something other than "not spending my thrones for a long time") into also involving securing whatever kind of payment or favour the seller want in return. That's even more "roleplay aspect" than before. That's a good thing!

The third way would be to, you know, break into an Imperial Guard facility and steal their cache of meltaguns. Good luck!

To add a further perspective on that - when everything has a price you sometimes get players with a sense of entitlement about equipment. If they save up their five hundred thrones or whatever, they then think they're entited to buy the meltagun even if you want to run a game where such things are scarce. They then start blaming you for blocking them from being able to buy it because the book says it costs X and they have X and the only thing in the way is you.

Not saying players don't get over-entitled anyway, mind you, but it's nice to have support in getting away from the "Magic Shop" mentality.