Since characters created in the EotE line have Obligation as a component, I wonder what AoR and F&D characters will have similar to that.

From the video of EotE by FFG, it doesn't appear that they will be going the route of each new rulebook being a more powerful version of the game before it (as in the 40k rpg line of rulebooks).

Each new rulebook will have more options available that all characters can build upon from what I interpreted from the video.

It will be interesting to see how you can mix and match characters from each series as a group.

-ashe-

thats what im expecting. it will be nice to not have jedi outshine everyone else and also make for more mixed group fun.

Since characters created in the EotE line have Obligation as a component, I wonder what AoR and F&D characters will have similar to that.

From the video of EotE by FFG, it doesn't appear that they will be going the route of each new rulebook being a more powerful version of the game before it (as in the 40k rpg line of rulebooks).

Each new rulebook will have more options available that all characters can build upon from what I interpreted from the video.

It will be interesting to see how you can mix and match characters from each series as a group.

-ashe-

From what Jay and Sam were saying on their recent appearance on the Order 66 podcast, it sounds like having characters from one book being compatible with characters from the other books is the intent. Granted, I think we'll see Force-users being a slight cut above the rest, but that's been a factor of every Star Wars RPG, official and homebrew.

Obligation in EotE has a Law/Crime slant to it for obvious reasons. The more Obligation you have in EotE the higher chance you are being hounded by a criminal organization or the law, for example. I think Age of Rebellion's Obligation slant will be Empire/Rebel while Force & Destiny will be DarkSide/LightSide.

I've always thought a nice tweak would have been to slowly add more types of obligation and make the points on your scale be tell something about your place in society. For example, Law, Empire, and Force. High Law means you are being hunted by the Law. 0 Law means you are squeaky clean. High Empire means you are someone like Luke or Leia. Low Empire means you may BE an Imperial (or vice versa). High Force (morality?) could be you have overcome to the Dark Side, 0 Force means you are squeaky clean in the eyes of the Force.

I don't have a problem with force users being "more powerful" than other characters as long as it is done with the logical idea that they've spent a sith ton of experience. The past rpgs i've played in star wars have just tried to emulate a jedi at the height of their power at character creation. Make a new jedi not much better than others, or really powerful if they put all their experience in one power.

The way force powers work, to make a proper jedi you will have to diversify your xp portfolio.

I think it is set up for Force characters to be similar to others at chargen then HAVE to spend a majority of their XP to get access to any of the really "cool" powers. In EotE it seems like the basic (non-force user) careers all encourage spending your XP in very diverse ways over time, but the Force Sensative Exile you kind of need to dump XP into Force powers to do anythign "flashy" --- I think this is actually a good design. Having beginning characters be able to do some of those amazing things breaks the EotE feel...the gritty, "out on the rim" feeling.

Still, all of this is just speculation until the books are released. I think FFG did themselves a great favor by keeping internal consistency between the 3 lines (if that is true). It will continually add to the options for narrative and character development as well as allow the developers to see what others "homebrew" over the next 2 years which they might want to incorporate...

I don't think obligation will change at all. Obligation is your ties to criminal elements.

Break a lot of laws, obligation rises.

Piss off a lot of people, obligation rises.

Pay off your debts and follow the rules, obligation declines.

This can be applied across the other books. A jedi trapped on a planet with no way off may make a bargain with someone to get off planet, obligation rises. An Imperial officer may cut some deals with a Hutt to make some cash on the side, but now have to be concerned with the possibility of that Hutt blackmailing them. A jedi that saves a defensless village from some black sun enforcers may gain an obligation when the black sun puts a hit out on them.

I think we'll find that obligation may be handled a bit differently. Rebels and the Empire will look down upon high obligation. Coasting with obligation in Edge isn't a big deal, but in the core, this could really hurt you, so paying off obligations will be more of a priority. The exception to the rule of course would be if your obligation is all anti-empire you may be directly recruited into the rebels as a supporter of their cause.

I also doubt they'll add new sliding scales as that will just get complicated. This action will raise you obligation, lower your loyalty, and increase your darkness. Oaths, loyalty, light/dark are all parts of the game as they stand now. They are the motivations that drive your character. I feel like the motivation section of the book gets ignored a lot.

For my 2 cents, I think AoR won't have Obligation, so much as something relating to Rank. It wil be interesting if FFG presents the book with a factional bias, meaning you could play an Imperial or Rebel. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a slight increase in starting xp, but not too much.

FaD is the big question mark for me. I believe it was in the beginner game, but there was a chart the roughly equated Force Rating with Jedi rank. 1-2 we've seen i think 3 was padwan level 4 Jedi and Jedi Knight being 5 and 6-7 being Jedi Master. Depending on where the game starts the party i could see them being anywhere from 3-4, and through advancement getting to 6+ If we balance the FSE against this however, it would put a starting character through about 2 specs so around 500-600 xp. However, FSE assumes that you are walking this path "alone" or at least with minimal training. With training I could see a force user at the FR 3 level being the equalivent of an EotE character who's got about 250+/- another 50 or so exp.

I really don't think they are going to emulate the power creep that the 40k line of rpgs did.

A starting character in EotE will be the same as a starting character in F&D, if not then the whole compatibility for groups falls apart as people try to "fix" and make sure all characters are at the same "level".

-ashe-

Re: Power Creep in the 40K line - not all the later books went up - Only War characters are pretty comparable to Dark Heresy ones. Rogue Trader and some of the Black Crusade characters are comparable; Deathwatch and Dark Crusade marines are comparable. Three tiers of power level. And it makes sense in the setting.

I would expect perhaps another 100XP for AoR characters, but not allowed for attributes, and probably 200 more for FaD characters...

I'm really interested in book-specific alternatives to Obligation, which can work alongside it. I'm thinking:

• Edge of the Empire: Obligation
• Age of Rebellion: Duty
• Force and Destiny: Oath

Han has a Duty to the Rebellion, but his Obligation to Jabba compels him to leave. Luke has an Oath to his Jedi training (personified by Yoda), but elects to honour his Duty to the Rebellion.

Good stuff. Looking forward to juggling those numbers.

See, I don't think they are going to rename Obligation because "Duty" and "Oath" are literally two different kinds of Obligation available in the Obligation chart. If anything, they might just come up with a few more or some more specific Obligations tied more towards the specific settings. Since they want to keep it simple and convertable, I doubt they will bother changing the name.

See, I don't think they are going to rename Obligation because "Duty" and "Oath" are literally two different kinds of Obligation available in the Obligation chart. If anything, they might just come up with a few more or some more specific Obligations tied more towards the specific settings. Since they want to keep it simple and convertable, I doubt they will bother changing the name.

Ooh. This, I did not realize. Still, I would like to see them recognizable as separate things!

Granted, I think we'll see Force-users being a slight cut above the rest, but that's been a factor of every Star Wars RPG, official and homebrew.

I personally hope they manage to make that not true - I find making everything about the Jedi and Sith to be dull as hell, considering the setting as a whole.

The motivation section of the rules already cover jedi/sith. There's no reason to build a new system. The motivation system already covers rebels/empire also.

The obligation system would also still be in place as Imperials and Rebels alike could still acquire obligations, or have obligations.

As for Jedi/Sith being dull. I very much agree with this. My group had 1 grey force user over all the years we played D20. This system makes non-force stuff even more interesting. No one in my group has even mentioned the force powers. I'll probably get the core force book, but I'm sure they'll all wonder why I'm bothering.

I assume that with the timeline and setting that any jedi/sith characters you create will be untrained and unfocused. They won't have you rolling up Jedi Knights.

The balance that was given to force sensitives in EotE is that is doesn't give any extra skills and it's fairly expensive, XP-wise, to do so ... while a FSE does have access to some oomph the others don't have, it is at the expense of being useful in other areas such as computers and mechanics. They do have some skills from their initial career and specialization, but since a good campaign should include elements of all skills (to a certain extent), it allows non force users to still play an important role if they choose to grow those skills. In addition, Obligation and Motivation allow a GM to specifically insert a story arc or encounter that forces one player or another into the spotlight. And depending on how much a Jedi will have to invest pursuing their craft, it may also allow the other players to build up their skills making them even more important.

I think they can carry that narrative through all three core books so that Jedi do shine in certain aspects of the campaign, but will have to rely on their companions to be successful. Of course, a GM could put together a largely force-necessary adventure, in which a group of Jedi's could go about their business, but with the game system they've put in place, it should be at least possible to have a campaign where a Jedi doesn't overshadow the rest of the group.

If the only reason you want to play Jedi is because they are more powerful, as was the case in d20, then I think you will be disappointed. I think Jedi will be balanced with other characters of the same xp level. I think the coolness factor will be the use of lightsabers and Force abilities and your ability to use those abilities in different ways. The more open narrative nature of the game means that not every ability will need to quantified. So we will see the same power used in different ways by different players. That is what I look forward to.

I personally hope they manage to make that not true - I find making everything about the Jedi and Sith to be dull as hell, considering the setting as a whole.

Well, it's going to depend largely on how Jedi and Force-user careers are implemented. I'd be very surprised if Force & Destiny didn't include base careers for different types of Force-users with specializations to further distinguish them, such as the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel split for Jedi that's been in place since the first KOTOR game was released. So unless they break with the standard "4 free ranks in the 8 career skills from your starting career and 2 free ranks in the 4 career skills from your starting specialization," the fact that F&D characters would be starting out with Force Rating 1 is going to put them at least 20 XP ahead of a EotE character that had to purchase Force Sensitive Exile.

Granted, the counter balance to that might be to reduce a F&D character's starting XP budget by 20 to 30 points to account for that "free" Force Rating 1. Something I've suggested to Awayputyrwpn and DarthGM in regards to their Jedi Careers to try make them a tad more balanced with EotE PCs.

I personally hope they manage to make that not true - I find making everything about the Jedi and Sith to be dull as hell, considering the setting as a whole.

Well, it's going to depend largely on how Jedi and Force-user careers are implemented. I'd be very surprised if Force & Destiny didn't include base careers for different types of Force-users with specializations to further distinguish them, such as the Consular/Guardian/Sentinel split for Jedi that's been in place since the first KOTOR game was released. So unless they break with the standard "4 free ranks in the 8 career skills from your starting career and 2 free ranks in the 4 career skills from your starting specialization," the fact that F&D characters would be starting out with Force Rating 1 is going to put them at least 20 XP ahead of a EotE character that had to purchase Force Sensitive Exile.

Granted, the counter balance to that might be to reduce a F&D character's starting XP budget by 20 to 30 points to account for that "free" Force Rating 1. Something I've suggested to Awayputyrwpn and DarthGM in regards to their Jedi Careers to try make them a tad more balanced with EotE PCs.

Remember that F&D isn't only Jedi, according to what has been said previously, so I doubt you'll have lots of different careers for Jedi - maybe a couple, with a fair few specialisations, and then whatever other careers are included.

A lot of people are worried about Jedi being balanced, this can easily be seen, but the system for character progression already has this solved. If we put together a few things already said, it can easily be explained:

...there was a chart the roughly equated Force Rating with Jedi rank. 1-2 we've seen i think 3 was padwan level 4 Jedi and Jedi Knight being 5 and 6-7 being Jedi Master. ...

... at the expense of being useful in other areas such as computers and mechanics. ...

What's a Jedi?

A strong, Force using lightsaber wielder.

How do you get strong in The Force in EoE?

With Force Ratings, which are Talents.

A Specialization Talent Tree has 20 talents in it. To become a "Legendary" power level Force User, that would use up 7 out of 20 talents in the tree. That alone can eat up a lot of the tree, but remember, these trees aren't linear either, and the XP costs can be snaked around to make it expensive to reach the upper levels.

That's only for The Force, you're also going to want Talents for your Lightsaber. People will want to be able to deflect blaster shots (likely more than once per round), maybe throw the saber, and many more things. Using a Lightsaber is starting to sound pretty powerful, right? Who else is deadly with a melee weapon? The Marauder. But The Marauder has a whole tree to back it up, Jedi will have Talents in the tree taken away from from Force Ratings.

After those 2 things are taken care of, like oatesatm said, it won't leave the Jedi with the ability to function much outside their powers (Force abilities ALSO have to be bought) and combat training. This alone is why there were different class of Jedi in other systems, Knights focused on combat, Guardians on The Force and Sentinels on a blend plus non-Force activities. With this 1 Talent Tree, someone could mold themselves into any of the 3 roles depending on what Talents they took and self-classify while remaining balanced with other classes.

honestly i think many of you misunderstand the obligations, they work for anything.

When set for war and ranking within military, higher rank gains more responsibility in their organizations, an obligation if you will. success yields the result of being relied upon to complete or take on more dangerous missions. Under Military constraints Obligations are the only thing you have, you are obligated to serve and conduct the mission statement of the armed forces, then you are obligated to your career path, quartermaster, infantry, water purification, ect...then as you gain rank you are expected to do more. In the end you life is nothing more than a ever fluctuating list of obligations. Examples, the more successful or dangerous you are against your enemy in war, the more they seek to capture or kill you (bounty obligation), the more you get injured and treated may give you a stim problem (addiction), perhaps you are constantly failing the organization or caused alot of resource loss for your faction, that now you must perform or take on missions to make up for it (debt).

this also continues to apply itself in force users, the jedi who outs himself in public during the age of rebellion will find himself hunted by the empire (bounty), maybe he seeks to avenge the order against the empire (betrayal), maybe he still clings to the tennets of a dead religion (oath), or perhaps he can't seem to keep himself hidden from the empire because someone knows his secret as a jedi (blackmail).

As for the the class differences in force users and force exile, remember that the force sensitve exile is only someone that has basic familiarity with the force, at most he is someone that has let his force training degrade and thus it is a added template. Force sensitive exiles are people who rarely use the force in common practice and mostly find themselves under other professions for their day to day lives. A Force user and tradition career would be someone who spends every day practicing the force, practicing a set training for skills, and basically fill in the scope of their traditions. Force Exile = a side hobby for full time careers, Force Tradition = a full time career.

I am expecting FFG to once again upset a lot of people when F&D comes out

I am expecting FFG to once again upset a lot of people when F&D comes out

How do you figure?

I'm hopeful that the books will all work hand in hand with one another.

When you make a Jedi character, it's not just going to be a powerhouse at level 1, right? You'll probably have to spend a lot of experience before you can start flipping off the walls, running really fast and dancing around with a double bladed glow stick.

Luke went on a 5-6 year journey, between all 3 films, of personal discovery to become the Jedi he was in RotJ. I'm sure FFG will make the Jedi path slow and steady, probably more expensive XP wise than the EotE class skills.

I'm hopeful that the books will all work hand in hand with one another.

When you make a Jedi character, it's not just going to be a powerhouse at level 1, right? You'll probably have to spend a lot of experience before you can start flipping off the walls, running really fast and dancing around with a double bladed glow stick.

Luke went on a 5-6 year journey, between all 3 films, of personal discovery to become the Jedi he was in RotJ. I'm sure FFG will make the Jedi path slow and steady, probably more expensive XP wise than the EotE class skills.

seriously doubtful, your example of luke is is a poor comparison as he was originally a fringer, then a force sensitive exile, and barely having force sensitive talents, buy Eps5 he was now a pilot/Jedi, which was huge in XP drain, by Ep6 he had become able to dedicate more xp on his talents for jedi and force powers. he wasn't as powerful because he was diversed so reatly and was pushing the envelop on his XP itself.

Also note that force powers are not as powerful unless you raise your Force rating to get the extra chances at getting force points to improve them greatly, at most a standard force user has a chacne to gain 2 force points, 1 which must activate the power and 1 to improve its capablities. at the most advanced a user gets 2 minimum and 4 maximum, and i'm not going to get into the issues that arise user gets DSP in that roll.

A standard jedi or full time force user would have no such thing, and would be able to do more than luke because of experience being dedicated to his class, yet would not be as diverse as luke in other areas, such as strain recovery from fringer, enhanced senses from force exile, and so forth.

My guess is that a force tradition will have their class skills, start with force rate 1, and Jedi would be broken into Guardian: Knight and sentinel specs, Consular: Sages and shadows. The term padawan/knight/master is a ranking made through in game recognition and most likely tied to obligations. force rating bonuses would be +2 within any force tradtition lining up a person with 3 force die at the deep end.