Flood Water

Any Phase: Kneel 2 influence or kneel 1 Warship location to choose a River plot card in any player's used plot pile. Trigger that plot's "When revealed" effect as if you had just revealed it.

if my opponent only has one HoD location in play,I use Flood Water to trigger At the Palace of Sorrows,will the HoD location be returned to the top of it's owner's deck?

thanks.

then,is Flood Water different from Archmaester Marwyn?

That greatly depends if playing this is considered to have actually triggered the plot as the mechanic... and the HoD location is the only card your opponent has in play. If so, this should work.

If not... i.e. if this is considered to give the plot effect to the played event and not actually triggering the plot... then it will not.

That greatly depends if playing this is considered to have actually triggered the plot as the mechanic... and the HoD location is the only card your opponent has in play. If so, this should work.

If not... i.e. if this is considered to give the plot effect to the played event and not actually triggering the plot... then it will not.

This should work; it appears the event is targeting the plot and allowing you to trigger its effect. The source of the effect is the plot in your used pile - so it's still a plot effect.

That greatly depends if playing this is considered to have actually triggered the plot as the mechanic... and the HoD location is the only card your opponent has in play. If so, this should work.

If not... i.e. if this is considered to give the plot effect to the played event and not actually triggering the plot... then it will not.

This should work; it appears the event is targeting the plot and allowing you to trigger its effect. The source of the effect is the plot in your used pile - so it's still a plot effect.

That's what I figued, but thought I'd cover my bases, just in case.

is it different from Archmaester Marwyn ?

Yes. It is different from Marwyn.

Marwyn says to "resolve" the plot effect. But what initiates is the character ability (ie, Marwyn's response). Effectively, you trigger the character ability and reference the plot to see how it resolves. So immunity to character abilities would protect from the resolving effect.

With Flood Water, you are specifically told to "trigger" the plot card. As such, the event resolves by initiating the plot, and immunity to events won't help.

It's an annoying difference in the way the effects are worded. When an effect uses words like "resolve" or "copy," it is only the effect doing the resolving or copying that is initiated. But when an effect uses words like "trigger," it resolves by forcing the initiation of the second effect.

Yes. It is different from Marwyn.

Marwyn says to "resolve" the plot effect. But what initiates is the character ability (ie, Marwyn's response). Effectively, you trigger the character ability and reference the plot to see how it resolves. So immunity to character abilities would protect from the resolving effect.

With Flood Water, you are specifically told to "trigger" the plot card. As such, the event resolves by initiating the plot, and immunity to events won't help.

It's an annoying difference in the way the effects are worded. When an effect uses words like "resolve" or "copy," it is only the effect doing the resolving or copying that is initiated. But when an effect uses words like "trigger," it resolves by forcing the initiation of the second effect.

but on July.5,2013, I have mailed to FFG through FFG's "Rule Question":

> Rule Question:

> another question through CardDB website:

> Archmaester Marwyn (MotA) is killed and his response is used to initiate the When revealed effect of Valar Morghulis (Core). What happens to The Red Viper (PotS) on the board?

> thanks.

reply from FFG & Damon Stone:

It is the plot that is being resolved. Immunity to any character or triggered effect is not going to prevent resolution of the chosen plot effect.

Interesting. So Damon is treating "resolve the effect" as doing the same thing as "trigger the effect." That choice isn't suggested to me given the stark contrast between "resolve" and "trigger" or "initiate" in the rules, as well as the precedent set by "copy" effects, but ... he's the boss.

Do you think maybe someday we'll get a resource like Oracle that standardizes all the wording on all the cards to eliminate these sorts of issues from continually arising?

That would be very useful.

Wait... what? Yet another, "we've always played it this way" being contradicted via a copy/paste email response from Damon. Do they even read these forums?

Does anyone else want FFG to initiate an actual FAQ web page where interim rulings are clarified so we don't get the corporate "Huh?" look on our collective faces?

*frustrated*