I wasn't planning on using a whole lot of maps for ground layout since I love the fact that this RPG can be played in everyone's minds for the most part.

But when I ran through some friends with the beginner's escape from Teemo the Hutt quick module, I showed my friends the map of Mos Shuuta. When they were ambushed by the storm troopers, I pointed on the map where I felt like that happened.

It happened to be right by the water tower. One of my friends asked if there was a weak point in the structure. I hadn't prepared for that, but I immediately pointed to a light-side destiny point and said "You tell me if there is or not."

He flipped it and sure enough, there was a weak point in the beam which I ranked as a "hard" difficulty shot (with some boosts). He made it, caused one group of stormtroopers to be knocked prone and flushed down the street, while causing a massive distraction to the others because of the panicked crowds. They were able to easily slip away during the commotion.

I love when my players think outside of the box. And I realize that my descriptions of areas may not be enough to always facilitate things like this. Sometimes they need a visual aid to give them more ideas about what to do and things to try.

I definitely will be incorporating more detailed maps and layouts of places in the future.

I wasn't planning on using a whole lot of maps for ground layout since I love the fact that this RPG can be played in everyone's minds for the most part.

But when I ran through some friends with the beginner's escape from Teemo the Hutt quick module, I showed my friends the map of Mos Shuuta. When they were ambushed by the storm troopers, I pointed on the map where I felt like that happened.

It happened to be right by the water tower. One of my friends asked if there was a weak point in the structure. I hadn't prepared for that, but I immediately pointed to a light-side destiny point and said "You tell me if there is or not."

He flipped it and sure enough, there was a weak point in the beam which I ranked as a "hard" difficulty shot (with some boosts). He made it, caused one group of stormtroopers to be knocked prone and flushed down the street, while causing a massive distraction to the others because of the panicked crowds. They were able to easily slip away during the commotion.

I love when my players think outside of the box. And I realize that my descriptions of areas may not be enough to always facilitate things like this. Sometimes they need a visual aid to give them more ideas about what to do and things to try.

I definitely will be incorporating more detailed maps and layouts of places in the future.

This is maybe my fault for not outright telling them in the narration, but without the Hangar Aurek map, my players wouldn't have thought to use the computer inside the hangar, but they saw it in the picture.

Even when using miniature for combat in a game I prefer dry-erase mats to pre-made maps. I would prefer to just draw something up quickly than spend time looking for the right map in session prep.

However, as Jomero pointed out above a city map or something like that can come in handy.

I can see the argument for and against maps. On one hand, using a map gives a better idea of distances between multiple entities that is hard to keep track of, but on the other hand, players tend to focus on a map and not use their imagination.

I can see the argument for and against maps. On one hand, using a map gives a better idea of distances between multiple entities that is hard to keep track of, but on the other hand, players tend to focus on a map and not use their imagination.

That's the issue I have with maps, and I'd rather my players use their imagination.

We use the ship map from the beginners game and have started to use this: http://thenoteboard.com/index.html for anything else they're having trouble visualizing.

I can see the argument for and against maps. On one hand, using a map gives a better idea of distances between multiple entities that is hard to keep track of, but on the other hand, players tend to focus on a map and not use their imagination.

Can you give an example of not using their imagination when using a map?

Can you give an example of not using their imagination when using a map?

PCs fleeing a squad of Stormtroopers down a street. They're less likely to flip a destiny point (or roll perception) for a hidden alcove / doorway if the map doesn't show one. My players tend to play to the map if there is one, whereas if it's a quick sketch, or no map at all, they tend to play more narratively.

Can you give an example of not using their imagination when using a map?

PCs fleeing a squad of Stormtroopers down a street. They're less likely to flip a destiny point (or roll perception) for a hidden alcove / doorway if the map doesn't show one. My players tend to play to the map if there is one, whereas if it's a quick sketch, or no map at all, they tend to play more narratively.

I can see that. The group I play with, however, is so refreshed by the fact that we can pull "anything" out of the air within reason that we have a blast doing just that with, or without a map. Flipping fruit carts, toppling boxes, handy bottles and so on.

Sorry for the blurry quality, but you get the general idea. I do intend to get back to working on these, but with a teething 5 month old and work. It's fallen by the wayside. They are servicable though.

Can you give an example of not using their imagination when using a map?

PCs fleeing a squad of Stormtroopers down a street. They're less likely to flip a destiny point (or roll perception) for a hidden alcove / doorway if the map doesn't show one. My players tend to play to the map if there is one, whereas if it's a quick sketch, or no map at all, they tend to play more narratively.

Thanks. That can go either way. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread a map can spark an idea a player won't have had without it.

Most of the time, I use a strip marked "Engaged | Short | Medium || Long || Extreme || gone."

I do use ship maps so that everyone has a clue what's where.

Pic of this strip, otherwise it does not exist (aka would love to use it so need to see it).

in one fantasy game. A Gnoll was fighting 2 players. The fight started out with the gnoll facing the two as they were close to each other. One of the PC started, then the gnoll, then the PC again. The second PC moved 4 sqrs(abstract no counting) to behind the gnoll. Then argued for 3 minutes that the gnoll AC should be at -4/6(been awhile can't remember the exact number) since he is attacking the gnolls back. I mediated a -2 A/C for being harried to divide his defense, but his attention and awareness doesn't let some kind of large benefit.

Is this real? I'm amazed that any GM (or other players for that matter) would tolerate 3 minutes of arguing to get a bonus on a roll . If you're playing an abstract game you shouldn't be arguing about literal placement of minis.

Yes, that kind of stuff does happen. All too often, in my experience, in games where gridded maps being used is the norm. About 95% of the players I've encountered wouldn't; about 4% would wheedle a bit, and about 1% will argue incessantly until they either get their way or get asked to leave. (I've gamed with over 100 different people, and have had one guy I literally had to give him the choice - "Stop arguing, or leave." - He left. All the more annoying, everyone else agreed with my interpretation of the rule that he'd been arguing. (I'll give him credit - he did apologize a week later, when the errata was published saying he was in fact dead wrong.) Mind you, I've met 2 of those, but only GM'd for one of them. (The other was at a con; he got all wankerish and was ejected from the game after 5 minutes, argued the ejection for another 5, and was removed from the area by the con staff... namely, me. He was arguing the use of the experimental weapons chart in Paranoia... I pulled him aside, and pointed out in my copy, where it says to kill PC's of players who argue rules.)

Mr. 3-minute argument guy isn't really all that uncommon - about 1 in 20 or so... but even they are fine most of the time.

I can see the argument for and against maps. On one hand, using a map gives a better idea of distances between multiple entities that is hard to keep track of, but on the other hand, players tend to focus on a map and not use their imagination.

Can you give an example of not using their imagination when using a map?

No specific case, but I find with a map, the players often don't visualise in their mind what the scene is like, and it just ends up with "I move here and attack". With something like EotE, where improvisation and lateral thinking is so important, using a map can have the adverse effect of making combats more boring.

I'm considering just using tokens or miniatures on a blank sheet, or even the bare tabletop, to just give rough positions without any detail of the scene.

Most of the time, I use a strip marked "Engaged | Short | Medium || Long || Extreme || gone."

I do use ship maps so that everyone has a clue what's where.

Pic of this strip, otherwise it does not exist (aka would love to use it so need to see it).

You really don't want to... it's UGLY. Blue crinkled cardstock, labeled in pencil. I need to make a new one. (I've been running Pendragon since April.

It was inspired by the mechanics for WFRP3 and Classic Traveller... Mind you, the strip was used without any other visual reference besides counters. (The ship counters I use are from a font I made. it's downloadable at http://aramis.hostman.us/sw )

I'll throw a printable strip in the scale I use. I'm about to start up another EOTE game.

Edit: Clear version up. Remember - I don't actually use a map - I put the counters on the strip.

I didn't use maps when playing Warhammer's narrative system (version 1.0 of EotE) and it worked fine. I used home-made oversized location cards. If you want a full explanation, I will respond. I've considered making such for Star Wars also, but haven't started the project yet due to living with a Yeti, a young Wookie, and having to pull security at the spaceport and all.

I DO understand the love of maps. I've used them for decades of gaming. It was hard for me to not use them for Warhammer narrative, but it became more understandable NOT to use them the more I played. They can still be used to represent where everyone is IF you have the extra time (don't bother with a grid, scale is not even important). Since I no longer have as much extra time, that was one of the reasons I grew to love the low prep time for me as a GM using this narrative system.

Like I said, I DO love maps though. I ended up using large sheets of 1" graph paper for prepared encounters. They could easily be rolled up and saved for a later adventure if the PCs returned. Here is a page with three examples from a SAGA Star Wars campaign.

My preference was to always get an overhead projector and mount it to the ceiling fan pointing down at the dining room table, but I'm afraid even if the young Wookie liked it, the Yeti might tear my limbs off.

I use maps I've made out of cardboard and spray paint, but only for really big battles, I also use a stick with the ranges on it. There are no grids, we use the stick to see how far you can move/shoot.

Most times we don't use the maps, but when there is a boss fight, or a lot of enemies it helps to keep track of where they are.