In the Skill chapter, under the Commerce skill, a procedure for acquiring items is described; the Acquisition test, a Commerce roll governed by the Influence stat.

In the Armoury chapter, a different procedure for acquiring items is described; the Requisition test, a straight Influence roll. The Requisition test is referenced again the the section on Influence in the Narrative Tools chapter.

Given how similar these methods are, I assume they are not meant to coexist. Does one of them need to be removed/altered to match the other?

In the Skill chapter, under the Commerce skill, a procedure for acquiring items is described; the Acquisition test, a Commerce roll governed by the Influence stat.

In the Armoury chapter, a different procedure for acquiring items is described; the Requisition test, a straight Influence roll. The Requisition test is referenced again the the section on Influence in the Narrative Tools chapter.

Given how similar these methods are, I assume they are not meant to coexist. Does one of them need to be removed/altered to match the other?

I'm glad someone asked this. I was wondering about that too.

Seems like the one using Commerce is more interesting, I'd roll with that.

Acquisition is you purchasing/gaining it yourself.

Requisition is you gaining it from a supply, and are expected to return it at a later date. (Usually from your inquisitor, sometimes if you're wielding his/her power from local Arbites/Guardsmen/Whoever has what you need).

Acquisition is you purchasing/gaining it yourself.

Requisition is you gaining it from a supply, and are expected to return it at a later date. (Usually from your inquisitor, sometimes if you're wielding his/her power from local Arbites/Guardsmen/Whoever has what you need).

That from the book, or are you going by the definitions from Rogue Trader and Ascension respectively?

I think the reason for these two similar methods is that characters trained in Commerce get a bonus to their aquisition, whereas it doesn't force untrained characters to roll with a -10 modifier. Might be wrong, however.

Also, Acquisition tests don't lower your Subtlety.

Acquisition is you purchasing/gaining it yourself.

Requisition is you gaining it from a supply, and are expected to return it at a later date. (Usually from your inquisitor, sometimes if you're wielding his/her power from local Arbites/Guardsmen/Whoever has what you need).

That from the book, or are you going by the definitions from Rogue Trader and Ascension respectively?

That's from the definitions of the words and a little bit of common sense.

Acquisition - The act of Acquiring (Acquiring: to get as ones owns, to come into possession or control by an unspecified means)

Requisition - The act of formally requiring or calling of someone to perform an action (Requiring : To claim or ask for by right of authority)

While mechanic wise there might be a little bit of an overlap, fluff wise it's fairly clear the difference between the two. My original statement of it being expected to be returned may vary depending on the situation and the like though.

Acquisition is you purchasing/gaining it yourself.

Requisition is you gaining it from a supply, and are expected to return it at a later date. (Usually from your inquisitor, sometimes if you're wielding his/her power from local Arbites/Guardsmen/Whoever has what you need).

That from the book, or are you going by the definitions from Rogue Trader and Ascension respectively?

That's from the definitions of the words and a little bit of common sense.

Acquisition - The act of Acquiring (Acquiring: to get as ones owns, to come into possession or control by an unspecified means)

Requisition - The act of formally requiring or calling of someone to perform an action (Requiring : To claim or ask for by right of authority)

While mechanic wise there might be a little bit of an overlap, fluff wise it's fairly clear the difference between the two. My original statement of it being expected to be returned may vary depending on the situation and the like though.

What do you mean by "fluff wise"? There's no fluff involved whatsoever, both are strictly in the sphere of the rules, and none says anything about having to give the item back.

Well, it may very based upon the circumstances with which it was Requisitioned.

For example, a group of acolytes try to requisition a squad of Enforcers and the GM has them roll Requisition. They fail by a degree or two, but rather than deny them the resource, the GM decides that they can have the Enforcers, however they must return them (Alive and in moderate condition) and their respective equipment after they are finished with them. However, if they fail, the GM could dock them a point of Influence.

This was how I handled stuff in my DH1 Ascension games, but I don't see any precedent in DH2 for it, though I'll be implementing it anyways.

It makes it less brutal when they fail a Requisition test.

DaBrian are you inferring these distinctions from the definitions of the words or is there in the DH2 rules an explicit difference between an Acquisition test and a Requisition test?

Seems to me there should just be one type of test to try to get gear.

Also, Acquisition tests don't lower your Subtlety.

The full list of differences;

* Acquisition tests are bound to Commerce; bad if you have rank 1 Commerce, good if you have rank 2-5 Commerce.

* Requisition tests can lose you Influence if you miss them by more degrees than your Fellowship bonus and can be auto-passed by burning 1d5 Influence.

* Requisition tests lower Subtlety if requisitioning something rare.

* Adeptus Administratum characters increase the availability of all items by 10% for the purposes of Requisition test, no mention of acquisition tests.

* Trading items in, as written, only applies to requisition tests, not acquisition tests.

I'm still pretty sure that one of the methods is a hold-over from an older edit. They are too similar and the differences are too small and fiddly for me to think they are intended to exist side-by-side.

Hmm...interesting one.

Commerce - Acquisition (and Bartering) p79

This seems to be focussed on purchasing a single saleable item (using IF of course, since money is done away with in these rules).

Requisitioning items (p131)

This appears to be slightly broader encompassing purchasing goods and services as well as 'the character using all of the resources he has at his disposal to attempt to purchase, trade, or extort what he wants from his current location' .

I think this is clearly an inconsistency in the rules (two slightly different ways to get hold of goods and services) that needs to be flagged up to FFG for resolution.

Personally i like the idea of separating 'commercial acquisition' from 'factional requistion', but i guess we'll see in the final release which way FFG jump.

I used to be strongly opposed to the requisition system in the newer games, as opposed to the standard monetary system in Dark Heresy, but I have, since then, come to realize that the requisition/acquisition/whichever system actually represents my vision of the 40k setting much better than an actual thrones economy ever did.

(disclaimer: the following is, obviously, bound to vary wildly from world to world. And also only represent my personal take on the 40k setting.)

On the average Imperial World, I don't really see much of a practical economy. Basically, citizens are assigned jobs from the Adeptus Administratum and are probably also assigned living quarters automatically. You don't really get paid, you're issued 'food stamps', etc., to cover essentials. If you need something beyond what the Imperium assigns to you, you have to trade for it. There aren't any real stores anywhere because people aren't supposed to randomly decide to go shopping. If you need something, you put in a request at the Administratum, and if you're lucky your grandkids might receive the item ( ). There definitely wouldn't be 'weapon stores' where you go to shop for new guns or ammo. The concept of temporary housing (like hotels etc.) is probably next to non-existing, except possibly near spaceports and such (possible not even there. Interstellar tourism is pretty uncommon outside of shrine worlds).

This makes being new guys infiltrating an unfamiliar Hive city really friggin challenging, if you don't have any local support.

Obviously, there's also bound to be a teeming underworld where you probably can acquire guns or ammo, find a bar or even a grocery store. The underworld, I imagine, is much more likely to have its' own home-made economy, from bottle caps to bullets, used to trade for items (which, again, makes it difficult - but probably a fair deal easier - to integrate into as an outsider).

I only really see Throne Gelt being used commonly in the higher echleons of the Imperium. The planetary governor might worry over the value of goods being produced on his world, or the size of the upcoming tithe, but it's not something the common man ever has to think about.

Anyway. Just some musings I've been chewing on for a while now. Might be slightly off topic, but the topic reminded me of it, and I thought I'd share. Sorry.

There's also the issue that, if we go by most fluff, a standardised Imperium wide currency is a ridiculous concept. There's a good reason planets tithe goods, not money. DH1 arbitrarily added in Thrones as a bit of an explanation for that, but it's an iffy one from a logical standpoint.

I too find the system as written to be a little bit untidy. As a temporary measure, I’m currently having the Acquisition sub-skill work more similarly to Barter. Before attempting a Requisition (made as a straight roll against Influence), the PC’s can make a Commerce (Perception) roll to try to gain some insights into the local supply/demand structure. Any successes they gain can then be added to the availability of the item.

As a GM I can talk about a 'pocketful of thronegelt', 'credits', 'gems' or whatever's appropriate to a world. Where a sector is properly connected together, I don't mind a locally standard currency.

I like having both methods - it helps underline the whole subtle/overt manner thing, and helps show just how much authority the acolytes can call on when they absolutely have to.

Equally, it allows appropriate situation-specific bonus talents which only apply to one or the other; something like Excessive Wealth (from Black Crusade) or Ear Of The Lord Sector (from Ascencion) would only work for acquisition and requisition respectively, not the other way around, which helps two characters with a decent influence underline the differences between themselves.

Also, Acquisition tests don't lower your Subtlety.

The full list of differences;

* Acquisition tests are bound to Commerce; bad if you have rank 1 Commerce, good if you have rank 2-5 Commerce.

* Requisition tests can lose you Influence if you miss them by more degrees than your Fellowship bonus and can be auto-passed by burning 1d5 Influence.

* Requisition tests lower Subtlety if requisitioning something rare.

* Adeptus Administratum characters increase the availability of all items by 10% for the purposes of Requisition test, no mention of acquisition tests.

* Trading items in, as written, only applies to requisition tests, not acquisition tests.

Ouroborus this is helpful and, I think, what FFG should do in their final 2e version - I like all the prose in the Beta but they need to just boil down the bottom line for everyone at some point in there.

I do have a few different thoughts on your list that I'll contribute.

• I don't see where it's just Requisition Tests that can lose you Influence. It's under the section on page 233 "Excessive or Reckless Use" and since purchases that the Cell makes will overwhelmingly be with Inquisitional funds (unless they're perhaps bartering with something they took off a dead body), spending their Inquisitor's funds would seem to Narratively fall squarely under the Excessive/Reckless possibility, "My Acolytes are shopping again?? " Mechanically, I like the contribution is makes to limiting Acquisition Tests. if you're going to use the company credit card a lot...the Imperium's bean counters just might notice.
• I would think Acquisition Tests for something rare would lower your Subtlety, as well. Someone goes into the local Hive weapons store for Terminator Armor - I would think that would get around (thereby lowering the group's Subtlety).
• You certainly appeared correct regarding Administratum characters but since your post, in the latest Update #2, they've seemed to change Administratum Acolytes to +10 on both Requisition and Acquisition. Narrative seemed to make a lot more sense before - ex-Administratum Acolyte would have influence with the supply honchos of an Imperial organization like the Inquisition...but why would they have pull with your local Hive weapon store, exactly?

All, of course, one man's opinion.

So what about ammo? Automatic on a Hive world, roll for it on a Shrine World, modified roll on a Feudal World & forget about it on a Feral World? For an Availability base, use the same as the weapon it's for?