Hello

First,I apologize inadvance for any grommatical/spelling errors in this message, english is not my native language.

I'd like to discuss about the ruling on Sensei/Cell Portal, which has been stated on BGG ( http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/965956/cell-portal-and-sensei )

On a server, the following ices are installed (from outmost to innermost):

Sensei

[Any Ice]

Cell Portal

Sensei:

For the remainder of this run, each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "->End the run" after all its other subroutines

Let's assume the runner runs on this fort, and breaks every subroutines on [Any Ice] every time he encouters it,but not on Sensei and Cell Portal.

The ruling states that the "End the run" routine added by the effect of Sensei stays on [Any Ice] until the end of the run. Therefore, when you hit [Any Ice] the second time, it has 3 additional "End the Run" routines (one for the first passage, and two more because Sensei effect's applies twice since you have encountered Sensei twice)

As I read it, it should not be the case. I believe the routine should be removed from [Any Ice] at the end of the encoutner.

I read Sensei the following way:

- For the remainder of the run, do [effect of Sensei]; this is true until the end of the run, no problem, and is triggered when the runne does not break Sensei's subroutine.

- [effect of Sensei]: each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "End the run" after all of its subroutines; the trigger is the encounter with a piece of Ice, and I believe it should end after the encounter, just like Chum's effect (which has been ruled to be temporary, limited to the encounter with the next piece of Ice).

Chum: The next piece of ice the Runner encounters during this run has +2 strength.

Chum's effect applies to the next piece of ice; Sensei's effect applies to every piece of ice until the end of the run; however, I fail to see why Chum's effect should be limited to the encounter of the ice and Sensei should not.

Many thanks for any official explanation.

Well, since the ruling came from Lukas, there's not much in the way of clarification we can give, official or otherwise. If you require further explanation of the ruling from an official source, the only way is to send your question in via the "Rules Questions" link at the very bottom of this website (among the small grey links). Do let us know what the answer is when you get it.

Hello

First,I apologize inadvance for any grommatical/spelling errors in this message, english is not my native language.

I'd like to discuss about the ruling on Sensei/Cell Portal, which has been stated on BGG ( http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/965956/cell-portal-and-sensei )

On a server, the following ices are installed (from outmost to innermost):

Sensei

[Any Ice]

Cell Portal

Sensei:

For the remainder of this run, each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "->End the run" after all its other subroutines

Let's assume the runner runs on this fort, and breaks every subroutines on [Any Ice] every time he encouters it,but not on Sensei and Cell Portal.

The ruling states that the "End the run" routine added by the effect of Sensei stays on [Any Ice] until the end of the run. Therefore, when you hit [Any Ice] the second time, it has 3 additional "End the Run" routines (one for the first passage, and two more because Sensei effect's applies twice since you have encountered Sensei twice)

As I read it, it should not be the case. I believe the routine should be removed from [Any Ice] at the end of the encoutner.

I read Sensei the following way:

- For the remainder of the run, do [effect of Sensei]; this is true until the end of the run, no problem, and is triggered when the runne does not break Sensei's subroutine.

- [effect of Sensei]: each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "End the run" after all of its subroutines; the trigger is the encounter with a piece of Ice, and I believe it should end after the encounter, just like Chum's effect (which has been ruled to be temporary, limited to the encounter with the next piece of Ice).

Chum: The next piece of ice the Runner encounters during this run has +2 strength.

Chum's effect applies to the next piece of ice; Sensei's effect applies to every piece of ice until the end of the run; however, I fail to see why Chum's effect should be limited to the encounter of the ice and Sensei should not.

Many thanks for any official explanation.

The thing to remember is the unwritten bit on sensei is that it only applies to ice after Sensei, since its subroutine has to go off to take effect.

I think I understand the confusion, and hope I can help, but the wording is... awkward. And English IS my first language, so apologies it's not any clearer when I'm done.

Chum specifically states the NEXT piece of ICE. Because you have encountered the effect and resolved it, there is no 'next ICE encountered'. Let's use the example from BGG but substitute Chum for Sensei for now.

So we have:

• Chum
• Neural Katana
• Cell Portal

Running this server, we allow Chum to go off (let's say we can't break a Code Gate), so now Neural Katana is +2 strength and has

> do 3 Net Damage

> (if any unbroken subroutines remain) do 3 Net Damage

Now because Neural Katana was the next piece of ICE that condition is resolved, and disappears, as by definition there can't be another instance of 'next piece of ICE after Chum'. Even if you encounter the same ICE again, it's no longer the next piece, as you've now encountered other ICE. So we bounce off Cell Portal, hit Chum again (assuming we don't jack out) and the same thing happens. Assuming we still can't break Chum, Neural Katana has

> do 3 Net Damage

> (if any unbroken subroutines remain) do 3 Net Damage

because now it as a NEW iteration of the Chum effect.

Now, going back to Sensei... Same setup.

• Sensei
• Neural Katana
• Cell Portal

We hit Sensei, can't break a Code gate. Neural Katana now looks like this:

> do 3 Net Damage

> end the run

However, Sensei specifically states ' for the remainder of this run, each piece of ICE...' . This is different, as there are no 'next' conditions... it's every piece of ICE, and it's persistent (remainder of run). So in this example, we hit Cell Portal and bounce back to Sensei again. Going through Sensei again means it fires again. Now if we COULD break Sensei this time (maybe we decided to bring our Decoder off Personal Workshop this time), Neural Katana would go from

> do 3 Net Damage

> end the run

to

> do 3 Net Damage

> end the run

> end the run

because of the persistent effect. The previous 'end the run' stayed, and we added one because this is still the same run. However, if Sensei WAS triggered again (no Personal Workshop, boo!) there are now TWO Sensei effects to apply, so Neural Katana is now

> do 3 Net Damage

> end the run

> end the run

> end the run

Which is frankly horrible. A third go around is even worse.

So basically the different ruling is down to the difference between 'next ICE encountered' and 'every ICE for the remainder of this run' .

I hope that helped and didn't just make things more confusing :S

Well, since the ruling came from Lukas, there's not much in the way of clarification we can give, official or otherwise. If you require further explanation of the ruling from an official source, the only way is to send your question in via the "Rules Questions" link at the very bottom of this website (among the small grey links). Do let us know what the answer is when you get it.

Thanks. I thought the designers use to reply on this forum. I'll do that right away.

I thought the designers use to reply on this forum.

Nope, they don't.

However, Sensei specifically states ' for the remainder of this run, each piece of ICE...' . This is different, as there are no 'next' conditions... it's every piece of ICE, and it's persistent (remainder of run).

Not exactly. It's "each encountered piece of ice".

If it was "each piece of ice", I'll understand that when hitting Sensei, all other ices immediatly gains an additional end the run for the remainder of the run, then Sensei has no further effect. The second time you hit Sensei, each piece of ice would gain a second end the run, isn't it?

But Sensei add a routine when an Ice is encountered (trigger) and does this until the end of this run (meaning this routine addition effect doesn't stays floating around after the run is completed, otherwise it would affect every ice until the end of the game).

The addition of the routine is triggered by an encounter with a piece of ice and should end when the encounter ends (the piece of ice is no longer encountered).

Ok, I was a little off, but the stipulation 'for the remainder of the run' remains. It could be read both as the effect keeps occurring for the rest of the run, or as the ICE is given the extra routine for the rest of the run. It's ambiguously worded I agree, not helped by the fact that English syntax can be very imprecise, but seeing as we have a ruling from Lukas, I guess that interpretation of the text is the one intended. Basically everything after the clause 'for the remainder of the run' should be considered to be affected by the clause.

To contrast, Datasucker specifically states 'Rezzed piece of ice currently being encountered' on it's effect. The key difference again is 'currently', which like with Chum, implies a limited condition to the situation. With Sensei, you encounter the Ice and move on, but there's nothing to say that the effect only applies for the duration of the encounter.

Sorry if I come across as argumentative or aggressive; it's hard to account for tone of voice in written word. I'm just trying to explain how I'm interpreting the ruling to apply without contradicting the text.

The key difference again is 'currently', which like with Chum, implies a limited condition to the situation.

There's nothing on Chum that implies a limited duration of the subroutine effect. It's the one thing that bugs me about these rulings -- the fact that Lukas seems to have pulled the "ice resets its strength after every encounter" out of his behind (unless I have missed that in the rules, but I don't think I have).

The key difference again is 'currently', which like with Chum, implies a limited condition to the situation.

There's nothing on Chum that implies a limited duration of the subroutine effect. It's the one thing that bugs me about these rulings -- the fact that Lukas seems to have pulled the "ice resets its strength after every encounter" out of his behind (unless I have missed that in the rules, but I don't think I have).

I disagree, although it could be much clearer. When you encounter a piece of ICE after Chum, there can by definition only be ONE 'next' encounter. To take another example, if you already had a Parasite sat on Chum at the start of the run, and used Wyrm or Datasucker to trash Chum after Cell Portal bounced you back, the second time you pass Neural Katana the 'next' piece of ICE condition is no longer valid, as you've already passed the 'next' piece of ICE. Whilst I certainly can see the counter-argument as being valid too, this logic still makes sense to me.

When you encounter a piece of ICE after Chum, there can by definition only be ONE 'next' encounter.

Chum is talking about "the next piece of ice the runner encounters", not simply the "next encounter." If you had to put a "kick me" sign on the next person you meet, they'd still have that sign taped to them when you meet them again 10 minutes later (barring any removal effects).

I understand you mean we can supposedly read Chum's effect to imply "the next piece of ice you encounter and for the duration of that encounter " just like we are apparently supposed to read "for the remainder of the run" on Sensei to apply to both the condition of encountering an ice as well as the duration of the conditional effect that results from the encounter. But it's a rrather awkward semantic interpretation we are asked to perform.

When you encounter a piece of ICE after Chum, there can by definition only be ONE 'next' encounter.

Chum is talking about "the next piece of ice the runner encounters", not simply the "next encounter." If you had to put a "kick me" sign on the next person you meet, they'd still have that sign taped to them when you meet them again 10 minutes later (barring any removal effects).

I understand you mean we can supposedly read Chum's effect to imply "the next piece of ice you encounter and for the duration of that encounter " just like we are apparently supposed to read "for the remainder of the run" on Sensei to apply to both the condition of encountering an ice as well as the duration of the conditional effect that results from the encounter. But it's a rrather awkward semantic interpretation we are asked to perform.

Absolutely, it's awkward as hell. It's one of the reasons non-English native speakers have such trouble learning the language, it's horribly inconsistent. There are some wordings on cards which are absolutely terrible to try and parse (the upcoming Rook is awful to decipher, but the effect is actually simple when you finally do manage it).

Someone on BGG did make a good point, which was that in the absence of any other info, you should assume effects last for the encounter only (as mentioned for Icebreakers in the main rules). If for example, Sensei read simply

' each piece of ice encountered except Sensei gains "->End the run" after all its other subroutines'

we'd automatically assume that the effect was for the encounter only. But yes, I completely agree that the wording could do with being MUCH clearer than it is. I hope future releases take the frequency of these types of rules interpretation questions into account when designing cards.

Just received the answer today from L.Litzsinger: