Currently, we have most of the bestiary taken up with 'Enemy Within' threats and 'Denizens of the Imperium' - which I think are pretty essential to the game. We also have 'Enemies Without' and 'Enemies Beyond' which I am more concerned by.

In the 'Enemies Without' only the Eldar are included (no Orks, Genestealers or anything else). I am not sure why this is, but it's curiously limited and I cannot see many Dark Heresy games actually inspired by Eldar threats to be honest. Certainly no more so than any other species. We also have quite a limited size of bestiary for the chaos demon threats, which I'd suggest is a pretty big part of the game.

For me, if space is limited, I'd prefer to remove the Eldar stats and beef out the Chaos information. Eldar can be held back for a separate supplement, along with Orks, Tyranids and the rest or simply given more emphasis in Dark Heresy's sister games (Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, etc).

Dark Heresy is essentially a game about conspiracies in human societies - which is a rich enough background - so why not keep the Xenos totally out of the corebook apart from vague references to mysterious alien threats that normal people will rarely experience?

I'd say Eldar can be useful, but probably not Craftworld Eldar. Corsairs or Dark Eldar definitely have place in a Dark Heresy campaign. Orks, potentially, but they don't present much potential for much else other than combat. I'd definitely like to see a Genestealer statline in there. I don't think Xenos should be ignored wholecloth, they are valuable; remember, Ordo Xenos is a whole section of the Inquisition!

Demons definitely should have some attention too, though. Furies, lesser daemons, warp spawn, and the main daemon of each Chaos God seems like it'd cover most bases, maybe add in stats for a Daemon Prince with options to modify traits based on the god it serves.

I somewhat agree Tyranid, Orks and Eldar should be used only sparingly if at all - but restricting the chapter to Cultists and Daemons that would very much narrow the focus of the game to being Acolytes of an Ordo Haereticus (or maybe Malleus) Inquisitor.

I'd like to see some options and expanded suggestions for Ordo Xenos Acolytes. Genestealer Cults would work as opponents, just like Smugglers dealing in alien artefacts or a planetary governor secretly trading with Xenos (the plot for the Forgeworld Taros Campaign springs to mind). Ordo Xenos doesn't automatically mean "Deathwatch" - and I think Dark Heresy should reflect that.

Another option would be to much more emphasise that it is meant primarily to play Haereticus Acolytes. But then it should be more explicit that it is now.

Yeah, it may well be worth dedicating most of the senos NPC section to Genestealer cults. Include stats for a basic cultist or two, a patriarch, and the genestealer itself. Or, even better, include rules on how to adapt a normal NPC into a genestealer hybrid. They're definitely the best example of the kind of xenos acolytes are likely to face. Tau may also have potential, considering more radical Ordo Xenos Inquisitors are likely to have vaguely diplomatic relations with them. Just throwing out ideas here, though.

I like that Eldar are included. They're the Xenos race that the Acolytes are most likely to be able to speak with, and might prove to be allies vs. Chaos. It also brings to mind Ravenor's association with the Eldar.

The Daemon section could use some expansion (why so much Nurgle and so little everything else?), but otherwise I'm pretty happy with things.

I did feel, without really checking the numbers, that there was a lack of high-threat enemies. Is a rank 10 party going to be alright with the current opposition (without just tossing hordes of weak enemies at them), or is there a problem there?

I like that Eldar are included. They're the Xenos race that the Acolytes are most likely to be able to speak with, and might prove to be allies vs. Chaos. It also brings to mind Ravenor's association with the Eldar.

The problem is that, outside of that one section, the Eldar aren't really described at all in the rest of the book. They look out of synch with the themes of the book generally, and somewhat redundant on their own as the sole Xenos represented.

I think a good way to split it would be this;

Xenos:

• A statblock for a genestealer, and a genestealer cult patriarch, as well as some quick conversion rules for making the standard human NPCs into genestealer hybrids.
• A statblock of a typical Eldar troop, with weapon and gear variation options. Basically, this could be adapted to be an Exodite, Corsair, Dark Eldar, or Craftworld without too much difficulty, and wouldn't take up much room.
• Some minor beasts and the like so we have some fauna to use.

Daemons:

• A minor daemon statblock, with some swappable talents to make it dedicated to any of the gods
• An entry for each of the 'typical' daemons under each god. So, a Daemonette, a Bloodletter, a Plaguebearer and a Flamer.
• A Daemon Prince statline, with options to alter the stats mildly to create princes dedicated to different gods. Prince is a better option than Greater Daemon, in my opinion, because they're a lot more likely to interact in ways with Acolytes that don't all revolve around brutally murdering them.

Yeah, I agree - that's a nice amount for a basic rule book. One or two non-Codex (i.e. non-militaristic) Xenos that work in a cult/conspiracy plot might be nice and offer some variety - Enslavers would be an example.

The Chapter should probably be expanded by a paragraph giving examples of how each specific Xenos type might actually come into contact with humans outside of the battlefield. That would probably eliminate some of the more inappropriate choices like Dire Avengers...

Dark Heresy is essentially a game about conspiracies in human societies - which is a rich enough background - so why not keep the Xenos totally out of the corebook apart from vague references to mysterious alien threats that normal people will rarely experience?

not really, sure a majority might be focused on the Ordo Hereticus, there are many of us who might want to play as the Ordo Xenos.

As to why there aren't more alien races in the book it is probably so they leave room to add supplements for people to buy. Remember they are also a business.

Ordo Xenos tended to get short shrift in DH1 - I'm hoping they get more attention in DH2 .

So, yeah, I'm voting for more alien adversaries, please...

Genestealer cult rules, please. Ordo Xenos needs more love.

I agree, Nurgle is nice and dandy- but this is a very good chance at including a VERY good Ordo Xenos opponent. Go go Genestealers!

Where's the slaugth?! I thought they were a marquee opponent in DH1. IT was the only place I ever saw them, and their first appearance scared the sh*t out of me. Iconic DH xenos, but maybe that's just me.

I think the issue there is that they're iconic Calixis xenos.

I would hate to see them remove all Xenos from the game and reduce it to just internal human threats. As others have stated, that would be kinda pigeonholing the game towards Ordo Hereticus. Just because the Deathwatch game exists doesn’t mean that the Xeno threat should be excluded from Dark Heresy. Half of my gaming group is female, and I’m quite certain that they’d have zero interest in playing ubermacho battle-monks.

Personally, I’d like to see the core rules contain a very small sampling of every major entity out there. Stats for a basic Ork Boy, a basic Eldar Guardian, a basic Necron Warrior, etc. If you have the stats for the most generic and basic thing, then it wouldn’t be too hard to extrapolate the stats of other things from there; at least as a temporary measure until they release supplements.

Then, I would hope that there would be supplements in the future that expand on everything. Not only on ‘infantry’ types but also vehicles. They seem intent on making vehicular combat a part of the game (which I personally think is awesome); so hopefully we’ll eventually see some stats for Wave Serpents, Trukks, and so on.

I'm a big Eldar fan so I really liked seeing them in the Beta and if they hadn't been I would have been seriously itching to know what they are like in the new system.

BUT, I think the book would be benefitted more by keeping the major Xeno races out of it and focusing primarily on humans and Chaos. There should be some Xeno stuff in there, but it should be minor race stuff - odd little critters, big lizards and horrible things that burrow into your head. Basically a handfull of alien to whet the appetite and fuels some one-shots. Primarily what we need are human adversaries (of which I think we actually have all we need for a GM to drop human adversaries in the game and as a basis for tweaking) and Chaos-flavoured stuff. So a few more mutants, a lesser demon of each of the Ruinous powers for End of Level battles, some interesting corruptions of kinds.

Save the big races - orks, eldar, tyrannids for a proper Xeno supplement. Better for us (we get proper treatment) and better for FFG (they get to milk us of more money when we can't help but buy the official versions of our favourite race).

That's my take on it, anyway. (I guess some Corsair eldar aren't a bad thing though, but that's my bias talking again.)

Where's the slaugth?! I thought they were a marquee opponent in DH1. IT was the only place I ever saw them, and their first appearance scared the sh*t out of me. Iconic DH xenos, but maybe that's just me.

It's also me!

Please keep the Slaught.

They are really bad-ass creepy Xenos-filth ! Love them!

Some form of iconic Xenos species unique for this sector is pretty much a given. Like the Slaught, Rak'Gol and Stryxis are signature Xenos for the Calixis Sector and the Koronus Expanse so this new sector needs some Xenos to leave its distinct mark.

And in other ways I throw in my support behind Vorzakk's words.

One thing I'd personally like to see is a basic statline for your average Deathwatch marine, Grey Knight and Sororitas. They're the Orders Militant of the Inquisition, they're very likely to show up in some capacity in higher level DH campaigns, so having some stats to go by would be handy. Plus, Space Marine stats are a good frame of reference for how powerful other things should be.

Except the iconic xenos I would like to see some native to the sector races. Having Slaught is interesting as FFG could venture different route for them. Instead criminal syndicate they could use some other means for invigilation of Empire's space.

One thing I'd personally like to see is a basic statline for your average Deathwatch marine, Grey Knight and Sororitas. They're the Orders Militant of the Inquisition, they're very likely to show up in some capacity in higher level DH campaigns, so having some stats to go by would be handy. Plus, Space Marine stats are a good frame of reference for how powerful other things should be.

SM would give a nice benchmark. Same goes for big monsters like Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes etc. In the current shape I don't think the mechanic will scale to that level. I'm talking about the problem already being discussed under Big Baddies topic.