I like playing the empire. Doing some list-building and firguring in my head, when I look at the B-Wing I see a lot of strengths:

• 3 Base attack
• A cannon slot
• New Systems Upgrade capability
• ...which can take Sensor Jammer
• ...Or Advanced Targeting Computer
• Two torpedo slots
• Barrel Rolling!
• Five shields, and three hull for not that many crits
• Ten Numb with his crit-pushing!

And only three drawbacks, one agility, presumably a terrible dial, and cost.

On the other hand I look at the Empire's new common craft, the Bomber, and I feel the flaws there are more glaring for not that many returns. Sure, five weapon hardpoints but two agiilty and 6 hull doesn't make me feel as confident as if I had a B-Wing on my side.

I mean off the cuff here you can make a pretty decent B-Wing list: 3 B-Wings, make one Ten, give them all Sensor jammers and Ten gets Marksmanship. 10 points left to play with, but you can give them autoblasters or other choice upgrades. Set up on one corner of the board, glide forward at 1 speed to let them come to you, and then fire away. Sensor jammer is going to be nerfing half the TIE Fighter's attacks and Ten can shoot at the most valueble player on the Imperial side. Bam!

Meanwhile TIE bombers are going to be choosing Target Lock every turn to get their warheads out before they die, and not under the most optimal conditions. It's great to finally have ordinance support options for the Empire but I'm not perceiving them to be as WTFBBQPwn as the B-Wings appear to be.

So I don't know, perhaps I'm missing something, but it feels like the Empire might be short-changed this one. Won't know for certain until they come to the table to test, but on paper it feels like the Rebels got the better toys out of this wave than the Empire did :\ Anyone have any insights to the contrary?

Your description of Tie Bombers matches exactly their role in all of the Xwing/Tie fighter flying simulators they made. Lots of torpedos slow and easily killed. So if that's what they do I will be happy. You can not compare B wings with the role of Tie bombers, I expect the B wing to not be that nimble.

B-wing only really need a hard turn that is white and 1 forward. Everything else is secondary for the movement dial. We will just see in a few months.

When you consider how many points it would take to fully stock either the B wing or the TIE bomber it is really going to be important to edit your lists down to the essential upgrades and weapons. It would stink to sink 60+ points into one B wing and not get the chance to use half of the ordinance it has loaded up.

In short, yes.

The b-wing is the only ship in wave 3 that i can see as a stand alone ship. A three b-wing list is certainly a potential winner. A 3-4 bomber list, 3-4 hwk's 3-4 lambda's? No thanks. I'm not saying some people won't try those lists, but i don't feel that they have as great of a chance of winning as a 3 B-wing list. So i certainly see your point. But i do think that these other ships will make a great addition to any squad, as the B-wing will be great alongside a couple X-wings.

I think that wave 2 ships were "counterparts", Interceptor/A-wing, YT/Firespray. This wave doesn't fit that same mold. But FFG is trying to still keep both factions fair. So while B-wing is probably a better ship than the bomber, i think FFG is trying to get us to have more diversified lists. "Instead of your 8 Academy Pilot list that you've been using since you got the game, try throwing a bomber and a few interceptors with a couple ties." "Instead of that old faithful 4 x-wing list, try a B-wing, it's the latest craze"

Also since we haven't got a real preview of the b-wing and bomber yet (unless i missed something, in which case please give me a link) there may be other factors that are going to make the bomber better or the b-wing worse than the current information would lead us to believe.

As an Imperial player, I also have extreme B-Wing envy. Of course, I also suffer from acute YT-1300 jealosy as well.

I think that wave 2 ships were "counterparts", Interceptor/A-wing, YT/Firespray. This wave doesn't fit that same mold. But FFG is trying to still keep both factions fair. So while B-wing is probably a better ship than the bomber, i think FFG is trying to get us to have more diversified lists.

Agreed. They're focused on keeping the factions equal while not focusing on ship to ship parity. I'm glad they are doing that because I think it will keep things more interesting in the long run.

I'm curious to see how a 4-HWK all-turret list performs actualy, though we don't know the generic HWK pilot's point cost yet to set it up. It's something I wanted to try with Y-Wings but might have more success with the 290.

Maybe Torps will have better luck against the rebels than I'm thinking. Bombers could be a good counterpart to the B-Wings, but B-Wings are going to be shooting first with torpedoes and probably messing up the Bombers before they get a chance to shoot. One Torpedo can cripple a Bomber, but can't cripple B-Wings, and you can only expect to take 3 of either fighter with one attack each turn and B-Wings shoot first. Fair?

I just hope this means we'll be seeing the TIE Defender in Wave 4. The Empie could stand to have one elite expensive fighter making it's own kind of mayhem on the board. The TIE Advanced is so much of a disappointment with any other pilot than Vader, and I find I don't fly him that much anymore.

Your description of Tie Bombers matches exactly their role in all of the Xwing/Tie fighter flying simulators they made. Lots of torpedos slow and easily killed. So if that's what they do I will be happy. You can not compare B wings with the role of Tie bombers, I expect the B wing to not be that nimble.

The big problem with this is that TIE Bombers can't engage at extended range distance. On the tabletop, Range 3 puts you in attack range from guns and torpedoes. In the simulator, you could lock on and attack B-Wings from far outside laser cannon range. In that game you could also target warheads and shoot them down before they get you, either with other warheads or your laser cannons.

Bombers do not have that stand-off engagement advantage in the TT game, which was always their greatest strength.

B wing will most likely have an amazingly slow movement dial and it lacks turret weapons. Just concentrate fire and get behind them, it's not like somebody is going to be flying a bunch.

Your description of Tie Bombers matches exactly their role in all of the Xwing/Tie fighter flying simulators they made. Lots of torpedos slow and easily killed. So if that's what they do I will be happy. You can not compare B wings with the role of Tie bombers, I expect the B wing to not be that nimble.

The big problem with this is that TIE Bombers can't engage at extended range distance. On the tabletop, Range 3 puts you in attack range from guns and torpedoes. In the simulator, you could lock on and attack B-Wings from far outside laser cannon range. In that game you could also target warheads and shoot them down before they get you, either with other warheads or your laser cannons.

Bombers do not have that stand-off engagement advantage in the TT game, which was always their greatest strength.

This makes me wonder if we will ever see a skill or sensor package add on that would extend the targeting range beyond 3...

Probably not, but it could be fun to try something like that in a custom game.

This makes me wonder if we will ever see a skill or sensor package add on that would extend the targeting range beyond 3...

Probably not, but it could be fun to try something like that in a custom game.

I think you're looking for Colonel Jendon with ST-321.

I think a lot of it's going to hinge on the dials. I also think that most of the meta predictions for Wave 2 turned out to be way, WAY off, so I think we'll be better off not jumping to conclusions until we've seen them in action.

Not that that will stop anyone from jumping to conclusions, of course, so probably better to say I'm going to take analysis and concerns with a massive grain of salt at this point.

I also think that most of the meta predictions for Wave 2 turned out to be way, WAY off, so I think we'll be better off not jumping to conclusions until we've seen them in action.

What were these Wave 2 meta predictions that were so far off?

3x is at least 24 HPs on the field. No matter how you cut it. That will be hard for the IMPs to deal with. The IMPs only hope is the B-Wing having a horrid dial.

The only thing that I have a problem with is Ten Numb's; "When attacking, 1 of your Crit results cannot be canceled by defense dice" is too much. I'd be OK with an uncancelled regular hit. A Crit is over the top.

I am not ready to pass judgement on Ten Numb yet until i see if the B-Wing is a tug or not. If it maneuvers like a barge, then i won't fuss too much. Also, 31 points for a pilot is on the high side. Definitely highest for Rebs, large ships not withstanding. Add a few upgrades, and you are clearly over 1/3 your allotment just in one ship.

What were these Wave 2 meta predictions that were so far off?

Stealth devices everywhere. Interceptors taking over Imperial squads. Large ships generally not worth their points since they're only one ship. Firesprays a distant second to the Falcon in effectiveness. All pretty much wrong, and that was when we knew everything about the ships thanks to the Kessel Run events.

I think it's clear that Wave 3 ships are aimed at synergistic builds and support concepts. I'll be very surprised if the B-wing doesn't have something that keeps it in that role despite its impressive baseline stats. But either way, we'd be better off waiting until we see everything at the very least, and preferrably see it in action.

Glorious troll list idea I just had. I used to run a list in Heavy Gear called "hurt 3000" which was just artillery everywhere. It just spammed something incredibly potent and obnoxious while still being viable at a competitive level.

So now I present to you this.

3 Blue Squadron Pilots with;

Fire Control System

Ion Cannon

Advanced Proton Torpedoes

I feel like this would seriously ruin a good deal of player's days, and probably wouldn't make me any friends with the local club. I may be missing something, but I think the ion cannon is a great way to mitigate the B-wings likely awful movement dial. Ion cannoning say, an X-wing, and then setting yourself up for an advanced proton volley will be bad news. Repeat 3 times and its GG turn 3-4. Furthermore, in a dogfight, being able to ion a ship and then barrel roll into range one, out of its arc, will be devastating.

Your description of Tie Bombers matches exactly their role in all of the Xwing/Tie fighter flying simulators they made. Lots of torpedos slow and easily killed. So if that's what they do I will be happy. You can not compare B wings with the role of Tie bombers, I expect the B wing to not be that nimble.

The big problem with this is that TIE Bombers can't engage at extended range distance. On the tabletop, Range 3 puts you in attack range from guns and torpedoes. In the simulator, you could lock on and attack B-Wings from far outside laser cannon range. In that game you could also target warheads and shoot them down before they get you, either with other warheads or your laser cannons.

Bombers do not have that stand-off engagement advantage in the TT game, which was always their greatest strength.

This makes me wonder if we will ever see a skill or sensor package add on that would extend the targeting range beyond 3...

Probably not, but it could be fun to try something like that in a custom game.

What about the Lambda Shuttle

STS-321 with Colonel Jendon?

But that's 29 points just for targeting.

Oops, someone already said that... I should read better.

In all the games I have played in with B-Wings...

Oh wait, that's right none of us have them yet, so it's impossible to tell how they are going to play.

Your description of Tie Bombers matches exactly their role in all of the Xwing/Tie fighter flying simulators they made. Lots of torpedos slow and easily killed. So if that's what they do I will be happy. You can not compare B wings with the role of Tie bombers, I expect the B wing to not be that nimble.

The big problem with this is that TIE Bombers can't engage at extended range distance. On the tabletop, Range 3 puts you in attack range from guns and torpedoes. In the simulator, you could lock on and attack B-Wings from far outside laser cannon range. In that game you could also target warheads and shoot them down before they get you, either with other warheads or your laser cannons.

Bombers do not have that stand-off engagement advantage in the TT game, which was always their greatest strength.

This makes me wonder if we will ever see a skill or sensor package add on that would extend the targeting range beyond 3...

Probably not, but it could be fun to try something like that in a custom game.

What about the Lambda Shuttle

STS-321 with Colonel Jendon?

But that's 29 points just for targeting.

Oops, someone already said that... I should read better.

You're both right, Jendon with STS-321 would get targeting past range 3. What I should have said is the ability to attack at more than range 3. Something like a long range homing missile or something.

Not that that will stop anyone from jumping to conclusions, of course, so probably better to say I'm going to take analysis and concerns with a massive grain of salt at this point.

I think I am one of those that jumps to the conclusion that the Death Bubble will be one of THE wave 3 lists.

PS 4 B-Wing

Fire Control Systems

Heavy laser Cannon

Three of those comes to 99 points. Even with a less than stellar movement dial, it will still have a ton of everything except agility. Then again, I will take hit points over high agility any day.

My guesses on the B-Wing dial will show us something slow and without many hard-turning manuvers. So it's the most comfortable flying in a stratight, slow speed 2 line. Giving them Ion cannon tokens nerfs their expectedly pathetic manuvering.

But I think that doesn't matter. B-Wing tactics are going to involve letting your enemy come to you and keep hammering them at all the range brackets. If the enemy gets in close, your speed 1 manuvers will force following TIEs to collide with you and loose their actions while your wingmates shoot them from other angles. Being restricted to speed 1 isn't so Bad with the B-Wings, and then when they perform their 1 forward movement they can still take an action and barrel roll into another position.

If you have a thicket of asteroids nearby and know what you're doing for manuvers, you can just circle the asteroids for a bit and keep hammering anything in range. If X-Wings' forward-1 manuver keeps spoiling pursuing TIEs, I suspect imperial players are going to hate the B-Wing when it does the same thing.

But... I expect in play testing the B-Wing's dial will turn out to be it's achilles heel. That and the 1 agility.

My greatest worry as an Imperial player is the Sensor jammer. Forget the FCS, Sensor Jammer locks an Imperial swarm player into choosing Focus if he wants to get as much hits as he can... and that's even saving them on the defense! That one upgrade alone, on such incredible paper fighters, might make up for their lack of manuverability.

In all the games I have played in with B-Wings...

Oh wait, that's right none of us have them yet, so it's impossible to tell how they are going to play.

I'd like to hear the end of that statement.

In all of the games I have played in with B-wing proxies, I'll take 2 Firesprays and a TIE against your 3 Bwings any day. It will be interesting to see how people fly Bwings. It sounds like there are quite a few people who have a good handle on how they plan on flying them, which is great to hear. if you try to run 3 Bwings, their weaknesses will be very easy to exploit.

In my opinion, I think the top rebel squads will tend toward 1 Bwing and a mix of other ships. A mixture of rebel ships will help to cover the particular weaknesses of each ship while simultaneously bringing out the strengths of each ship.

At 100 points, I'm thinking that 4 Blue Squadron B-Wings (22 points each) are looking pretty solid with 12 points left over to beef them up. That's a lot of firepower and a lot of shields to eat through!

That kind of makes sense... the Firesprays have enough HP to absorb a lot of the amazing B-Wing attacks and the rear-fire arc can exploit the B-Wing's terrible dial. Firesprays are also packing considerable firepower themselves and are almost the B-Wing's counterpart for the Imperial side.

I think you've had some insights on wave-3 Stuff Hothie, so it's nice hearing from you that B-Wings aren't as superior as I'm thinking.

Now, does this mean twin Firesprays is the only answer to a 3 B-Wing list or can a TIE swarm variant still prevail?