Role Daemonhost:

Daemonhosts are a rare sight amongst the members of the Inquisition, even the more radical inquisitors fear to use them and the rutuals of binding a daemon in a human host are long and complicated with a high chance of catastrophic failure. If successful, however the Daemonhost can be an invaluable tool in the fight against chaos both providing knowledge of the warp and ferocious in combat. The unfortunate soul that hosts the daemon is slowly but surely destroyed as the Daemon mutates the host to better suit it's needs.

+2d10 Weapon Skill

+1D10 Toughness

-2D10 fellowship

The character becomes a psyker with a psy rating of 1.

A character who becomes a Daemonhost cannot use any weapons but rather relies on spikes, tendrils, or other equally horrid weapons that grows from it's form (use the profile of a knife to represent this). In addition the character may spend a fate point to instantly succeed in a remembrance/lore test that has to do with daemons or the warp.

Characters who choose the Daemonhost role must only choose from the Daemonhost talent/trait tree when purchasing talents/traits

(note I do not have an actual "tree" diagram, these are just in a rough order)

Mutable form - 400 xp

The Daemonhost has mutated it's form to gain one of the weapons provided below. (note this skill may be purchased multiple times but the daemon host may only use one per round)

Talons- Basic Melee- 1d10+Sb(I)- 2Ap- Tearing

Lashing Tendrils- Basic Melee- 1D10+Sb(I)- 2Ap- Flexible

Wrecking limb- Basic Melee- 2D10(I)- 3 Ap- Concussive(1), Unbalanced

Unholy Might- 150xp

The Daemonhost may, before combat starts, temporarily increase their Strength and toughness bonus by 1. This stops after combat and the player immediately suffers 1 point of fatigue.

Daemonic Flight- 500xp

Through some unholy means (wings, levitation, etc) the Daemonhost may fly for 1d10 minutes once per day.

Perfect Union- 1 00xp

The daemon has successfully learned how to mask it's presence inside the host. It gains a +20 bonus to deceiving others that they are human.

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Note: I am still working on this, what is here is just part of what I have so far. Once it is completed I will send it in for consideration. All comments and criticism are welcome as well as suggestions for making it more balanced and fun.

The idea of a playable Daemonhost is definitely interesting, and they can be major parts of a radical's retinue. But I kind of feel they're not a great fit for PCs. I don't really like the idea of a character whose constant desire will be to undermine the party, even if they can't exactly act on those impulses.

If its a role selection, it will need to contain a skill and characteristic advancement table.

EDIT: By having the ++- for characteristics, it comes across more as a homworld choice.

I like the concept, but should this be done as an elite advance rather than a role? As a role it restricts the option to only new characters, but as an elite advance it can be purchased down the line.

I'm not sure a daemonhost as a playable character actually makes any sense from a background perspective...while an inquisitor might be able to bind one to his service and, provided the binds are strong enough, the daemonhost might actually even obey his orders (at least to a degree), the free will of the host is irrevocably destroyed in the process as the daemon takes over.

So, in essence, you'd be playing a daemon, not a human anymore, and I'm pretty certain this is not supposed to be possible (not even BC allowed that or something similar).

Note, I'm not saying you shouldn't allow this in your play group as a house rule, I just don't think FFG will (or should, for that matter) actually make it part of the official rules. Binding a daemonhost and have it serve the acolytes, yes (and I believe this is actually possible in DH 1), but it should be strictly handled as a NPC.

I like the concept, but should this be done as an elite advance rather than a role? As a role it restricts the option to only new characters, but as an elite advance it can be purchased down the line.

Yeah an elite option could work, I'm not a huge fan of the character creation process though. It seems as though if you already have created a character who has their own backstory, quirks, traits, and abilities they would essentially be dead and instead you would be playing a daemon. I'm not sure too many people if they are anything like me would like to spend their time working on a character just for all that to change when they purchase the elite advance. Rather even though an elite choice makes more sense in terms of mechanics it doesn't make sense in terms of story (though I am not opposed to making it an elites option).

I'm not sure a daemonhost as a playable character actually makes any sense from a background perspective...while an inquisitor might be able to bind one to his service and, provided the binds are strong enough, the daemonhost might actually even obey his orders (at least to a degree), the free will of the host is irrevocably destroyed in the process as the daemon takes over.

So, in essence, you'd be playing a daemon, not a human anymore, and I'm pretty certain this is not supposed to be possible (not even BC allowed that or something similar).

Note, I'm not saying you shouldn't allow this in your play group as a house rule, I just don't think FFG will (or should, for that matter) actually make it part of the official rules. Binding a daemonhost and have it serve the acolytes, yes (and I believe this is actually possible in DH 1), but it should be strictly handled as a NPC.

Well that was kind of the point, that you would be playing a daemon whose powers have been limited by being trapped in a human host. So in essence you are still at the same skill level of the humans but you are actually playing a daemon. Basically the part where you play as a daemon is only a problem story wise. Yes it is possible for players to bind a daemon to serve them but I think it would be more interesting if one of them got to play as the daemon.

As for the daemon serving the inquisitor I am trying to work on a system where the daemon's goal is to instead get free of the host or be destroyed (similar to the spawn/daemon prince goals of Black crusade). Though you are right, playing a daemon can give some misgivings but in reality you are no different then a psyker with a high weapon skill and some unique abilities.

Hm, that might work, but I'd be very careful about the type of groups I'd introduce this to...having a player whose goal is essentially opposed to the rest of the group can quickly create pretty toxic situations

A character which is literally designed to antagonise the party is a bit... questionable. And I love inter-party conflict.

Well, The Radical's Handbook (oh, how I loved thee...) had some very interesting rules for Daemonhosts, but I would definitely not see them as a Role.

It could be a very interesting elite advance, though.

I think, however, that as playable option it would fit in the theme more like the Ravenor novels, where you are not a daemon in a human body, but a person with a daemon inside, trying to break free.

That actually was a playable option in the Radical's Handbook...well, at least for a while If I remember correctly it led to the character's death pretty inevitably (short of an exorcism), and pretty quick at that, too.

Daemonhost, the Goblin Grenade of Dark Heresy.

In addition to the rules I am also working on a system where if the player gains too much corruption their bodies cannot take the strain of mutation and they die. The major problem is that I don't want someone to take this option just for them to die shortly after.

A character which is literally designed to antagonise the party is a bit... questionable. And I love inter-party conflict.

Hm, that might work, but I'd be very careful about the type of groups I'd introduce this to...having a player whose goal is essentially opposed to the rest of the group can quickly create pretty toxic situations

Understandable, I never really intended that they antagonize the players so I never really considered this but I can see where that is a very possible problem with Daemonhosts. Maybe put on some limits to their ability to antagonize like some form of excruciation device that will deal damage like a shock or null zone if the daemon begins to act up.

That actually was a playable option in the Radical's Handbook...well, at least for a while If I remember correctly it led to the character's death pretty inevitably (short of an exorcism), and pretty quick at that, too.

Well I would want to avoid that as I don't think too many people would want to play it if it just dies after awhile. Most people I know like to stick with their characters.

Ok after some consideration I have decided to make it an Elite advance. I have it formatted similarly to the elite entries in the book but It wont let me put in the image that shows it formatted correctly so here it is (tech tree is not yet done and will take a bit longer).

Daemonhost Rules

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Experience Cost: 500xp

Prerequisites

• Corruption: 25

GM Guidance: A Daemonhost is a singularly rare occurrence in an Inquisitorial warband and is not to be taken lightly. In addition such creatures can only be created after extensive rituals and research has been completed. At least one member of the warband must have an Intelligence of 50 and a Willpower of 40 to conduct the ritual to bind the daemon. Once the ritual is complete the character into which the daemon is bound is no longer to be considered living, though the creature may wear the skin of the character the character is actually having their soul slowly drained to feed the daemonic essence. Such a punishment should be reserved for players who have failed in their duties.

Instant Changes

+2d10 Weapon Skill +1D10 Toughness -2D10 fellowship

The character becomes a psyker with a psy rating of 1. If they were already a psyker then increase their psy rating by 1.

Unlocked advances

Daemonhosts gain access to the Daemonhost Talent tree

Additional Info

Daemonhosts may not use any weapon that requires complex machinery, they are limited to simple bladed weapons from the low-tech section.

I can't say anything from the status bonuses as the Dark Heresy already let you buy more stats advancements than other system.

Maybe advancements like:

Daemonic strength ( gives unnatural strength x2) 500 xp

Or gives the trait when becoming the Daemonhost, but increasing the cost to become one?

Anyway the idea of using this guys is very good

I can't say anything from the status bonuses as the Dark Heresy already let you buy more stats advancements than other system.

The stats are more for story purposes then actual game changes but it has a similar effect, it is mostly to represent the player being filled with the strength of the daemon that is possessing them and mutating them.

Also as for advancements here are the 4 talents that I have put up so far (there will be about 10-13 by the end of the process)

Mutable form - 400 xp

The Daemonhost has mutated it's form to gain one of the weapons provided below. (note this skill may be purchased multiple times but the daemon host may only use one per round)

Talons- Basic Melee- 1d10+Sb(I)- 2Ap- Tearing

Lashing Tendrils- Basic Melee- 1D10+Sb(I)- 2Ap- Flexible

Wrecking limb- Basic Melee- 2D10(I)- 3 Ap- Concussive(1), Unbalanced

Unholy Might- 150xp

The Daemonhost may, before combat starts, temporarily increase their Strength and toughness bonus by 1. This stops after combat and the player immediately suffers 1 point of fatigue.

Daemonic Flight- 500xp

Through some unholy means (wings, levitation, etc) the Daemonhost may fly for 1d10 minutes once per day.

Perfect Union- 1 00xp

The daemon has successfully learned how to mask it's presence inside the host. It gains a +20 bonus to deceiving others that they are human.

I don't mean to be the guy to lob stuff at other gamer's ideas or stuff.... This is a terrible idea. If you felt compelled to do it, this should clearly be houserule. Making it an elite advance is the way to go, but you might want to tweak that a bit:

• The requirements to become a daemonhost seem to rest upon the knowledge and capability of other players in the group. I guess you mean to say that it would be the dark and forbidden knowledge that some Radical would possess that would allow him to inflict this horrible fate on a erstwhile ally... But the requirements are an Intelligence of 50 and a Willpower of 40? With the way stats are right now, guys can conduct this ritual before they are into their second career if they roll well on their stats and buy a single upgrade. Most Administratum file clerks will allow the party to perform this. Think about that for a second.
• Please read The Radical's Handbook. It might give you a much better concept for what you are dealing with here in terms of ability.
• How does one roleplay a daemon without invariably destroying the entire party? I mean that honestly. How can a player who has been filled with arcane power and malevolent impulses that would shred the sanity of any mortal not immediately set about causing the destruction of the group?
• Null-fields, mind-shackles, and any other device that exerts influence over the daemonhost might make them able to be in the party without immediately sexually violating everything to death before running off to contaminate the planet, but how fun would it be for the player to have some other party member able to inflict convulsions on him whenever the bearer of said convulsion-box got annoyed with the daemonhost?
• How do you balance all the fluff powers of a daemon?

But the question shouldn't be so much "how," but "why?"

A daemonhost is not a player character... It is an opponent. Sure, an opponent who you can occasionally command to do stuff and who will even follow orders to an acceptable degree sometimes, but an opponent none the less. Daemons are murderous, insane, entirely alien liars who's sole interest in mortals inevitably leads to the poor sod's demise. They corrupt and kill and destroy because that is their very nature. What is to stop the Daemonhost from buying the Inquisitor elite advance?

Sorry man, but I see this as a great way to crash a campaign.

Well who's to say ALL Daemons are against the Inquisition?

Some of us them may want to help the Imperium prosper while simultaneously helping it eliminate some of our their rivals.

What better way to increase the influence of your God's cult on a Planet then helping to root out and destroy the competition?

How does one roleplay a daemon without invariably destroying the entire party? I mean that honestly. How can a player who has been filled with arcane power and malevolent impulses that would shred the sanity of any mortal not immediately set about causing the destruction of the group?

Yes the daemon is trying to interfere but the whole purpose of binding one inside a host is so that it has limited power and is bound to serve the inquisitor. This means following orders and the fact that it is physically not able to attack the inquisitor or the party.

How do you balance all the fluff powers of a daemon?

Binding them inside a host, according to the fluff, makes it so they are unable to use their full powers.

Null-fields, mind-shackles, and any other device that exerts influence over the daemonhost might make them able to be in the party without immediately sexually violating everything to death before running off to contaminate the planet, but how fun would it be for the player to have some other party member able to inflict convulsions on him whenever the bearer of said convulsion-box got annoyed with the Daemonhost?

Nothing is stopping them but I trust the players in my group enough not to do that, and a quick word from the GM can usually fix a problem like this.

The requirements to become a daemonhost seem to rest upon the knowledge and capability of other players in the group. I guess you mean to say that it would be the dark and forbidden knowledge that some Radical would possess that would allow him to inflict this horrible fate on a erstwhile ally... But the requirements are an Intelligence of 50 and a Willpower of 40? With the way stats are right now, guys can conduct this ritual before they are into their second career if they roll well on their stats and buy a single upgrade. Most Administratum file clerks will allow the party to perform this.

I am still working on the rules, this was just a baseline for me to start at.

Daemons are murderous, insane, entirely alien liars who's sole interest in mortals inevitably leads to the poor sod's demise. They corrupt and kill and destroy because that is their very nature. What is to stop the Daemonhost from buying the Inquisitor elite advance?

I am working on it so that once the Daemonhost is a Daemonhost their character plays very differently that a normal player. For starters they may only increase skills and gain traits/talents from the Daemonhost tree. In addition the Daemonhost now has different goals, rather then the acolyte's goals of becoming an inquisitor the daemon is trying to get free. I am making a system somewhat like the corruption and insanity points where the daemon can try to break free of it's body and return to the warp. Yes it might try to corrupt members of the party but that is just part of the fun.

Other than the issues everyone else has raised, there's the problem that Daemonhosts really don't have much place as a permanent party fixture. Dragging along a psychopathic, all powerful individual covered in sigils, runes, chains and all sorts of nasty **** isn't exactly conductive to subtlety, and you'd draw the attention of every Puritan in the sector within an incredibly short time. Daemonhosts aren't 'part of the team', they're the worryingly powerful trump card you bring out when you need them, before stuffing them back into your sealed, heavily warded basement.

Daemonhosts aren't 'part of the team', they're the worryingly powerful trump card you bring out when you need them, before stuffing them back into your sealed, heavily warded basement.

Exactly, a great example is Eisenhorn's daemonhost. At least when he's first using him secretly, I mean after a while Eisenhorn was just like, "Screw it let Cherubael take care of it."

And by basement people usually mean stasis vault.

Other than the issues everyone else has raised, there's the problem that Daemonhosts really don't have much place as a permanent party fixture. Dragging along a psychopathic, all powerful individual covered in sigils, runes, chains and all sorts of nasty **** isn't exactly conductive to subtlety, and you'd draw the attention of every Puritan in the sector within an incredibly short time. Daemonhosts aren't 'part of the team', they're the worryingly powerful trump card you bring out when you need them, before stuffing them back into your sealed, heavily warded basement.

Yeah, true. Its not exactly a subtle weapon. Some group however like to have a not so subtle approach and might be interested in using it. Others might just keep it for a bothersome obstacle. This is why I am trying to write rules for people who want to play as a Daemonhost who would have different goals then the team.

This was mainly made for the person in my group who gets annoyed with too much story and wants combat so he has a reason to skip what he refers to as "the boring part". this way my group has an story reason why he only shows up during combat and we don't have him ruining the rest of our game by needlessly starting fights and killing because he was bored.

Other than the issues everyone else has raised, there's the problem that Daemonhosts really don't have much place as a permanent party fixture. Dragging along a psychopathic, all powerful individual covered in sigils, runes, chains and all sorts of nasty **** isn't exactly conductive to subtlety, and you'd draw the attention of every Puritan in the sector within an incredibly short time. Daemonhosts aren't 'part of the team', they're the worryingly powerful trump card you bring out when you need them, before stuffing them back into your sealed, heavily warded basement.

Yeah, true. Its not exactly a subtle weapon. Some group however like to have a not so subtle approach and might be interested in using it. Others might just keep it for a bothersome obstacle. This is why I am trying to write rules for people who want to play as a Daemonhost who would have different goals then the team.

This was mainly made for the person in my group who gets annoyed with too much story and wants combat so he has a reason to skip what he refers to as "the boring part". this way my group has an story reason why he only shows up during combat and we don't have him ruining the rest of our game by needlessly starting fights and killing because he was bored.

That sounds like a player you need to sit down with and talk to as a group about expectations for the game. You don't have to play the game with him if he doesn't enjoy it.

Don't deal with out-of-game problems in-game. Your player has different expectations for the game and different wants and you need to talk to them about it.

Hey, could well be he's resolved it with the player, and the guy's said he wants to join in for combat but not so much the investigation and social parts. Which is fair enough, if the group is cool with that it's worth allowing.

Don't deal with out-of-game problems in-game. Your player has different expectations for the game and different wants and you need to talk to them about it.

I don't, this was the resolution we came up with. I decided to throw it out there if anyone else wanted to try it. It does work very well with these sort of players.