Or is the B-wing over priced?

PS 8 Lambda Kagi 27 pts

PS8 B-Wing Ten Numb 31 Pts

Lambda has 2 more hull points than B-wing, all other stats are the same

The action bars and upgrades are a little different but i can't say one is better or worse than another. B-wing gets the barrel roll, and Numb gets an elite pilot option that Kagi doesn't. B-wings have 2 Torp upgrade. Lambda gets 2 crew slots, plus has a title card upgrade and option to take large ship only modification like anti-pursuit lasers. I think it all evens out pretty fairly.

So why the 4 point difference, keeping in mind that the lambda actually has 2 more HP? For me that's huge.

While on the topic. How can a ship with 5 hull and 5 shields cost the same as Soontir, with 3 HP? Yes Soontir is PS9, has 3 agility, and has the abiltiy to barrel roll and boost, but he can still easily be killed in 1 shot. Not quite the same as a ship with 10 total health.

There may be other variables here which is the only thing i can't factor in. Maybe the Lambda has the worst maneuver dial we'll ever see. Maybe it will flop around the board like a Hutt on a 2 week spice bender. That is the only thing i can see to really justify the low price tag.

I've seen some discussion on the formula ffg must use to figure out the cost of ships. But this really makes me wonder if we could ever figure it out. Or if they even have a solid formula

Not trying to start a rant, and hope someone else hasn't already started said rant on another thread, but this kind of bothers me

I think most people generally agree, but are quietly waiting to see the dial on it. You also have to factor in that a large base ship is more difficult to fly in general, especially when it only has a forward firing arc (unlike the YT-1300 and Firespray).

A rumor I've seen a lot is that it will lack a K-Turn on the dial, which would be a huge drawback given that it would make getting that fire arc even harder.

Yes...it does *seem* overpriced. But i think we'll see when it comes out that it is quite fairly priced.

Maybe the Lambda has the worst maneuver dial we'll ever see. Maybe it will flop around the board like a Hutt on a 2 week spice bender.

It's quips like this that makes this game/these forums so much fun. Well said, sir!

OK ok. I'll settle down (slumps shoulders and sighs). I guess if the movement dial is bad enough the price will be ok. But then i have to wonder how likely i will be to take this ship if it doesn't have a k-turn or something equally horrible. I mean how many people take a y-wing without a turret? Its just too frustrating trying to line up shots on ships that are far more maneuverable. But maybe that's the point. FFG wants this to be a support ship instead of a heavy hitter i guess. I know, I know, wait and see.

Seems to me like the Lambda is really going to end up being a very support focused craft, and will play a more passive role in battles when compared to the other large ships.

While on the topic. How can a ship with 5 hull and 5 shields cost the same as Soontir, with 3 HP? Yes Soontir is PS9, has 3 agility, and has the abiltiy to barrel roll and boost, but he can still easily be killed in 1 shot. Not quite the same as a ship with 10 total health.

Plus Soontir has Elite Pilot Skills, gets a free focus when he stresses, and has the best maneuver dial in the game.

Lol, otherwise you are right. They are practically identical.

Many of the Lambda's possible effects don't require the forward slot do they? Just the canon upgrade, and that'll be good only in the first few turns of the engagement.

Yeah, it's going to have the worst dial in the game, so says FFG someplace. And with only 1 agility it's going to rack up hits like Jawas to a Scavenger hunt. Without the resliency of the YT it's not going to be long before it goes down.

But the trick with the Lambda is to outfit it with things to make it a less attractive target, which is where your points compensation comes from. Either you send Captain Yorr to his death for 24 points, or you give him a Sensor Jammer and Rebel captive for 31 points to punish any rebel shooting at him with some kind of ill effect.

The maneuver dial will make a HUGE difference. If the Lambda truly has no Koiogran, then all you have to do is get behind it and blow it to smithereens. The other big ships have rear arcs or 360 degree guns but if this one is truly helpless from behind and can't 180, then it's doomed once ships get behind it.

The maneuver dial will make a HUGE difference. If the Lambda truly has no Koiogran, then all you have to do is get behind it and blow it to smithereens. The other big ships have rear arcs or 360 degree guns but if this one is truly helpless from behind and can't 180, then it's doomed once ships get behind it.

That's a good point. Couple the lack of a K-turn with what could possibly be limited turn options (shallow and short only?) and faster ships could stay right behind it. Or maybe worse, they could easily block movement and actions with impunity.

Plus Soontir has Elite Pilot Skills, gets a free focus when he stresses, and has the best maneuver dial in the game.

Very true. But Kagi and the ther lambda pilots have pilot abilities as well. I think saying one pilot ability is better than another isn't always true. I'm saying its very hard to put a point value on pilot abilities. And while Soontir has an elite pilot slot, he doesn't have the 2 crew member slots that the lambda has.

As far as the maneuver dial, i can't argue with you. The interceptor is awesome. Movement must be a bigger factor in determining point values than i originally thought

but if this one is truly helpless from behind and can't 180, then it's doomed once ships get behind it.

If they don't give it any Koiogran maneuvers, for sure it will get 1 straight, so it will be darn near impossible to stay behind it. And remember what upgrade card it comes with: Anti-Pursuit Lasers. I predict a lot of people getting behind it, then overlapping and not being able to shoot and getting hit by APL. I don't think it will be that defenseless.

But I am definitely bringing out Arvel to counter that tactic. I'll take his three dice against the one APL die anytime.

With the APL, you just take damage, no defense against it.

With the APL, you just take damage, no defense against it.

Well, you still have to roll a die for damage.

If the shuttle has a 1 straight move then it will be easy for fighters to stay behind it - 1 straight on a large base is the same as 2 straight on a small base. If you start behind the shuttle and you're not already almost touching it then you'll have no trouble staying behind it assuming that you can guess the direction it's travelling and that it doesn't collide during its movement.

If the shuttle's dial is bad enough, it may very well have access to 2 shots during a whole game only, depending on the skill of the opponent. Better make those shots count by rolling well, and extracting as much usefulness with its support ability!

Perhaps for that reason alone, we'll very rarely see the shuttle generics fly.

If the shuttle has a 1 straight move then it will be easy for fighters to stay behind it - 1 straight on a large base is the same as 2 straight on a small base. If you start behind the shuttle and you're not already almost touching it then you'll have no trouble staying behind it assuming that you can guess the direction it's travelling and that it doesn't collide during its movement.

The large base 1 speed maneuver is the same as a small base 2 speed maneuver. It won't be hard.

The large base 1 speed maneuver is the same as a small base 2 speed maneuver. It won't be hard.

Assuming that the lambda doesn't have a higher PS than the fighter tailing it, of course.

The large base 1 speed maneuver is the same as a small base 2 speed maneuver. It won't be hard.

Assuming that the lambda doesn't have a higher PS than the fighter tailing it, of course.

That will only matter if you start tailing within collision range in the first place.

It's not hard to imagine a dial that would make the Lambda nearly useless as a maneuver combatant. No turns at all would be extreme, but a good example. Even having the turns, but making them all red, would have a huge impact on how it flies.

You don't have to go that far. You could say only Shallow Three turns are white. That would certainly have an impact.

Its a shuttle, it should not be that mannoverable, your other ships should be the ones taking out anything shaddowing it. Any thing slowly following the shuttle would be easy pray themselves.

Mystic Force,

Re: "It's a shuttle, it should not be that mannoverable".

The YT-1300 is a freighter, yet it is reasonably maneuverable. Millenium Falcon aside, I would not expect a "cargo ship" to be much more maneuverable than a "mult-purpose" shuttle. Then again, the MF is a "Hero" ship (and the only one of its class actually seen on screen) and used for smuggling, so I guess there is some justification for its maneuverability.

And this is Star Wars, so anything is possible...

Chris

The Falcon gets the maneuverability it has because it's the Falcon. There's really no other justification for it - the dial is stupidly good for what it's supposed to be. But, it's the Falcon.

The standard YT-1300 just comes along for the ride.

It seems like you can answer your own question with the comparison you made: Kagi vs Soontir. Yeah, they're the same price without upgrades... but what does that mean? Without a single upgrade, Soontir is still a pretty **** good investment. If you think you could take a Kagi shuttle versus Soontir and win even anywhere close to half the time...

The shuttle's only going to be worth those points with a good number of upgrades, I'd expect. So now maybe you're talking about 35 points, or a lot more. It's not hard to sink 45+ points into that particular shuttle, without even trying that hard.