X-Wing Miniatures, Deconstruction to allow RE-construction.

So I have seen several posts through the Forums discussing a formula that is used to build the X-Wing miniatures. I want to thank all those who's work helped guide me on my path. I am not done with my work currently (help would be appreciated in fact,) but I thought I would share my discoveries.

My Goal here is to create a set of home rules to allow me to make my ships that I created in the old D20 Star Wars RPG. Primarily my upgrade Y-Wing.

First by way of introduction to the process, I did not use a ton of advanced math to come up with this. Rather I looked at what was already posted hear and on the net in general, guessed (hypothesized) to start, built a formula, tested the formula with all known ship data, then revised based on my observations. A very scientific way of grinding the problems even if I did not use more than the basic IF/Then/Else formula in Excel. I am a pattern watcher, not a math genius. It just so happens pattern watching can point out Math formulaic changes quicker sometimes than other pure mathematical ways of calculation.

Here in my mind are the rules of ship building, with one variable unsolved for.

1. While attack value is < 3, Agility is 3+ and Shields = 0; Special pilot ability is free
2. If it is not free the Special Pilot ability costs 1 point, no matter what it is.
3. No ship may have a points cost lower than 12
4. Elite pilot talents cost 2 points if ship base agility is 1, 1 point if ship base agility is 2 and 0 points if Ship base agility is either 3+ or ship is large
5. If there is no Special Pilot ability and the Special Pilot ability would be free the Elite Pilot talent slot becomes free.
6. Hull value can be the most expensive portion of the ship. It appears to calculate like Income Tax does in the US.

Hullpoints 1-2 cost

1

point each

Hullpoints 2-4 cost

2

Points each

Hullpoints 5-6 cost

3

Points each

Hullpoints 7-8 cost

3.5

Points each

Thus a Y-Wing costs 9 points for it’s hull (5 hull points =1+1+2+2+3=9 squad points)

The base formula I am using is:

Pilot Skill + Attack*2 + Agility*3 + Calculated hull cost + Shield*2 + Calculated Special Ability cost + Calculated Elite Pilot cost = Ship point cost.

Now the issue is I have run into two problems. One could be a simple math issue with the costing of Hull at 7-8 points, the other is that in almost every case EVERY one of the same ship type had a single variable that I am calling “Engine” that was a positive or negative modifier on the cost for the ship.

Below is a chart, including Preliminary unconfirmed data for the 3^rd Wave of Minis. Please note the two values for the unconfirmed HWK-290 and Lambda from Wave 3 and the YT-1300. The YT-1300 break down is based upon Hull strength (making me want to re-think cost of Hullpoints 7-8.) My gut feeling tells me something about the individual ships maneuver cards + Hull = variance in cost from my formula above. Given the Unconfirmed nature of the HWK and Lambda I am unwilling to explore them further at this juncture. In both cases the highest cost version of the ship (HWK-290 and Lambda) that we have seen information on is 1 or 2 points cheaper than it should be per my formula. But all other ships fall in with a single value.

Engine Mod

Ywing

-6

Tie Engine

-7

Xwing

-1

YT1300 any

-1/-3

A Wing

-3

Bwing

-3

HWK

-1/1

Tie/Adv

-2

Tie/INT

-2

Firespray

-2

Tie/B

-8

Lambda

-8/-9

So, I have started a process here. At this point my I have this itch in my mind that the engine variable is calculated using Agility + Maneuver Card + Hull Value + Size factor. But anything is possible. I have my up Super fantastic Y-Wing to build (Ion cannons as primary weapon, Laser cannons in the turret, Engines of an A-Wing giving X-wing level performance and swap Concussion missiles for Torps.)

Pappystein

Pappystein,

I have tried to "deconstruct" the point system for the game and have been somewhat stymied. The system FFG uses appears to be non-linear or even random. From my own observations I have concluded the following:

Pilot Skill- 1 point per skill level

Unique Ability- 1 point*

Elite Pilot Ability- 1 point*

The really difficult part of determining a point system is how to rate the maneuverability of each ship. How do you rate an X-Wing vs Y-Wing vs a TIE/LN vs a TIE/X1 vs a A-Wing vs a TIE/IN vs a YT-1300 vs a Firesprite, etc...?

Looking at your system, I am a bit confused... something seems missing (or I'm just missing it, anyway)... the points values I get using your method seem too high. How do you rate maneuverability?

Here is a ship I have designed; how would you point it out?

Z-95 Headhunter PS:2, Attk:2, Evade:2, Hull:2, Shld:2; Focus, Tgt Lock, Missile, Modification; Maneuverability similar to X-wing but 4 straight is RED, 1 bank is GREEN , add 1 turn WHITE. (thus, somewhat slower but more maneuverable).

I posted some of my designs to get some input from other players but nobody responded. Disappointing. Maybe if I had a kool username? ;-)

Chris

The ship's maneuver dial needs to be accounted for somehow.

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Honestly, I don't think that there's a solid formula. I think they made the base TIE and X-Wing cards, settled on their points, and then extrapolated from there. You'd be surprised how often that happens in games w/fewer number of models. Then as the game grows and they get more and more models, the problems start to appear.

The other possibility is that there are a lot of decimal values being dealt with and rounding is making everything wonky. For example I used to play a game where instead of adding up the cost of each component and then rounding the sum (like you would do for most math problems) they rounded each component first and then added up the values. That easily led to very similar models having vastly different point costs.

FREX: two models w/5 near-identical stats. First the math done the usual way:

Model A) 1.6 + 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.4 = 7.2 Rounded to 7

Model B) 1.4 + 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 = 7.8 Rounded to 8

Done the way this guy built his formula:

Model A) 1.6 + 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.4 + 1.4 = (each number rounded) 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 6

Model B) 1.4 + 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 + 1.6 = (each number rounded) 1 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 9

If you guys come to a consensus please let me know. I want to play capital ships and treat the hard points the same as you would a ship. Each has it's own Attack, Agility, Hull and Shields (easier that way). Of course a few extra rules. Balance looks easier but a pointing system for balance would be nice.

Here is the rules where I started: http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/87313/new-templates-for-star-destroyer-with-updated-card

Just make something up. If you think it is too over powered, adjust the points costs up. If it is too weak, then buff the stats or adjust the points cost down. Half of making a scenario is guess work anyways.

Just make something up. If you think it is too over powered, adjust the points costs up. If it is too weak, then buff the stats or adjust the points cost down. Half of making a scenario is guess work anyways.

That's what I started to do. I'm hoping to come up with a good balanced set of items so I can print them out. I don't want to waste the ink, haha.

Here is a ship I have designed; how would you point it out?

Z-95 Headhunter PS:2, Attk:2, Evade:2, Hull:2, Shld:2; Focus, Tgt Lock, Missile, Modification; Maneuverability similar to X-wing but 4 straight is RED, 1 bank is GREEN , add 1 turn WHITE. (thus, somewhat slower but more maneuverable).

Chris, First off I don't know about cool User-name.... But..

I too have built a Z-95. My system is incomplete and Manuverability is the point that needs completion.

I would cost out a Z95 as

2 points for the 2 pilot skill,

2 Points for the 2 Hull value

4 points for the 2 Attack Value

6 Points for the 2 Agility Value

4 Points for the 2 Sheild value Or a total of 18 points before any Manueverability or Engine calculation.

I have experimented with several ways to calculate engines but none have matched how I am calculating the main points value currently. Hence asking for help

The way I am figuring it several Manuverability dials are going to be negative (Y-Wing anyone.) There is still much room for improvement. it would be nice if FF would release a "Home rules" Expansion which in core Home Rules would include 8.5x11" or A4 sheets set up just like the Rebel and Imperial ships. Generic Dials (or allow 3rd party Generic dials) and have a Manuver chart that you would color Arrows in either Black (meaning blank,) green or Red pen/marker vice White default.

Here is a ship I have designed; how would you point it out?

Z-95 Headhunter PS:2, Attk:2, Evade:2, Hull:2, Shld:2; Focus, Tgt Lock, Missile, Modification; Maneuverability similar to X-wing but 4 straight is RED, 1 bank is GREEN , add 1 turn WHITE. (thus, somewhat slower but more maneuverable).

Chris, First off I don't know about cool User-name.... But..

I too have built a Z-95. My system is incomplete and Manuverability is the point that needs completion.

I would cost out a Z95 as

2 points for the 2 pilot skill,

2 Points for the 2 Hull value

4 points for the 2 Attack Value

6 Points for the 2 Agility Value

4 Points for the 2 Sheild value Or a total of 18 points before any Manueverability or Engine calculation.

I forgot to menton that given the X-wing engine has a -1 cost modifier I would guess that the Z-95 would either be a -2 or -3 Cost modifier. I am not 100% certain on that thus making it 16 or 15 points with no Skills or Elite pilot talents.

Just make something up. If you think it is too over powered, adjust the points costs up. If it is too weak, then buff the stats or adjust the points cost down. Half of making a scenario is guess work anyways.

That's what I started to do. I'm hoping to come up with a good balanced set of items so I can print them out. I don't want to waste the ink, haha.

Try using a tablet and don't print everything. Cheaper in the long run. I haven't bought a printer cartridge in about four years.