One of my players asked this question last night, and a quick look through the rule book brought up nothing.

If I have, say, a blaster pistol who's range rating is "short", can I ever target someone at medium or long range? i'd suspect, based on some of the other rules, that I would simply recieve a penalty for doing so, like a set back die...but I didn't see anything in the book pointing it out.

Rookhelm, I believe that is correct. As the targets get further from the default range of the weapon, you simply add more difficulty die to the roll.

I haven't seen anything about firing beyond the normal range of a weapon so I play it as the max range of of the weapon. I believe there are talents that allow you to increase the range of a weapon.

Range is a maximum range. The personal gear section doesn't state this but the Starship and Vehicles chapter does. You can do what you wish in your game, of course, but I'd imagine this is the design intent.

Rookhelm, I believe that is correct. As the targets get further from the default range of the weapon, you simply add more difficulty die to the roll.

Well, firing at longer range, regardless of the weapon, adds difficulty dice.

Short = 1, medium = 2, long = 3. So, would you upgrade the difficulty, then, for every range beyond the default range of the weapon? Or do you add setback dice?

Range is a maximum range. The personal gear section doesn't state this but the Starship and Vehicles chapter does. You can do what you wish in your game, of course, but I'd imagine this is the design intent.

Okay, tha'ts how we were doing it. If it becomes an issue, then maybe I'll consider using setback or challenge dice.

That is the max distance it can be fired and actually hit something.

Keep in mind, this is a conceptual concept and if both sides (players and GM) are using it, then it is fair. That said, there is nothing stopping your from doing some houserules,

I personally like how it is just so the game does not get bogged down with options. Not in range? Move. That means they cannot hit your either if using same weapon. They have a rifle and you a pistol? yes... they can hit you but you not them... move. It is elegant in its simplicity.

I dunno. It seems like you guys are adding a lot of complexity to what is a simple system easily tracked by a page of circles and counters.

You can fire beyong max range by using a talent.

Yeah, even in games with range bands, we still end-up using miniatures because it's easier and maps are fun -- don't have to continually re-describe the scene. Also, maps.

I dunno. It seems like you guys are adding a lot of complexity to what is a simple system easily tracked by a page of circles and counters.

I am not sure what you mean by tokens on circles, but one thing is clear - it needs tracking. I just don't see any easier way that actual stand ups on the table where the ranges everyone relative to everyone is obvious at a glance.

That's my point. I disagree that it needs tracking at all. You don't need the simple sheet I provided, you don't need minis, you don't need a map. You just need a narrative - a GM to say "You're at medium range." Why get into "tracking" at all, I say. This is an abstract system, I'm perfectly fine leaving it in the realm of the abstract and it works just fine.

Yeah, even in games with range bands, we still end-up using miniatures because it's easier and maps are fun -- don't have to continually re-describe the scene. Also, maps.

With you 100% Lorne..

Not to mention if you have access to Star Wars miniatures, it's evocative and immersive to see the actual stormtroopers and other iconic characters on the table.

I am not sure what you mean by tokens on circles, but one thing is clear - it needs tracking. I just don't see any easier way that actual stand ups on the table where the ranges everyone relative to everyone is obvious at a glance. I've seen a lot of obscure methods for tracking it just to avoid miniatures. But we spend zero time tracking range bands in our game. It's just obvious by looking at the table. :-)

I did not use miniatures or maps on the table the first 15 years of playing RPGs. DM had only map, players used imagination. In fact... I do not think we ever used them until 3rd Edition came out.

Same here Brash, with one exception: the flat square cardboard tokens and city maps from the old yellow-box first edition of Marvel Super Heroes

Same here Brash, with one exception: the flat square cardboard tokens and city maps from the old yellow-box first edition of Marvel Super Heroes

OMG I forgot about that! Had that also! However... other than a couple of misc attempts, I would say we really never "played" that game. We had All the old school games... but...

I cannot remember actually PLAYING gamma world 1e even though I owned it.

I remember doing half of the "in box" Top Secret adventure, that is it

I had a friend that had boot hill, again read it, never played.

I remember reading Star Frontiers... but not playing it.

I remember getting Marvel Super Heroes, but mostly remember using it to solve arguments over powers.

Same here Brash, with one exception: the flat square cardboard tokens and city maps from the old yellow-box first edition of Marvel Super Heroes

OMG I forgot about that! Had that also! However... other than a couple of misc attempts, I would say we really never "played" that game. We had All the old school games... but...

I cannot remember actually PLAYING gamma world 1e even though I owned it.

I remember doing half of the "in box" Top Secret adventure, that is it

I had a friend that had boot hill, again read it, never played.

I remember reading Star Frontiers... but not playing it.

I remember getting Marvel Super Heroes, but mostly remember using it to solve arguments over powers.

Yeah I had all that stuff, then my folks threw it out when I moved out and they moved to a new house. I've spent years rebuilding that collection via eBay.

Good memories

Anyway, apologies for the derail.

Same here Brash, with one exception: the flat square cardboard tokens and city maps from the old yellow-box first edition of Marvel Super Heroes

This was my first experience as a GM, at Powell in 8th grade, and still my favorite "cinematic" supers system.

I dunno. It seems like you guys are adding a lot of complexity to what is a simple system easily tracked by a page of circles and counters.

I am not sure what you mean by tokens on circles, but one thing is clear - it needs tracking. I just don't see any easier way that actual stand ups on the table where the ranges everyone relative to everyone is obvious at a glance.

That's my point. I disagree that it needs tracking at all. You don't need the simple sheet I provided, you don't need minis, you don't need a map. You just need a narrative - a GM to say "You're at medium range." Why get into "tracking" at all, I say. This is an abstract system, I'm perfectly fine leaving it in the realm of the abstract and it works just fine.

I like my rp world to have some sort of consistency and since so many things mechanics wise relate to ranges, I find winging it to be more of a gimmick than something I'd enjoy in the long run.

I like my rp world to have some sort of consistency and since so many things mechanics wise relate to ranges, I find winging it to be more of a gimmick than something I'd enjoy in the long run.

I find that people with more of a D&D background lean this way. As mentioned we also play Battletech and the entire point of that game is mechanics of maneuvering into ideal ranges. I guess my group has no issues going between mechanic heavy games and cinematic modes such as Star Wars. Even when we played D6, we shunned the tracking aspect of ranges for a more cinematic, descriptive narrative. Perhaps it's because we have that dichotomy between Battletech rules-heavy mechanics, maps and minis and now FFG Star Wars that we like the more cinematic form of playing Star Wars.

I think one of the issues here is shared conceptual realities. It's one of the big challenges communication in general, and certainly of collaborative storytelling.

GM describes a scene, and gives voice to the people and objects within it through description and roleplay. PC describes their character's interactions with said scene in the same manner. Both have created the fictional world in their imagination. Awesome! We have the baseline of the hobby.

Now, if the player and the GM interpret things differently, this can lead to confusion - especially if the player has acted under certain assumptions, and then the GM invalidates them. Now, the GM is the arbiter, but this stuff is hard, and can certainly lead to frustration, and a loss of player agency. If player decisions don't matter, why are they there? Conversely, the GM is trying to manage multiple data points - things aren't always as they seem, don't always work their way, etc.

So, this is a long-winded, grad school-fueled way to say that visual aids can be a massive boon in providing shared consensus - we both know there's a wall that stands between the PC and where they want to be, so they'll have to navigate around it, etc.

I find that I prefer a visual aid every now and again, though my style is very narrative. YMMV.

Our style is very narrative, the grid map is just a measurement tool. I've never liked D&D, but have played storyteller, call of cthulhu and other systems with focus on the story. But as is true when I watch movies, I like action scenes to have a good Flow and make sense. I use the grids because it's easy and supports the narrative by instantly keeping track of ranges in a way everyone around the table can relate to just by looking at the table. So it's not used for tactical combat.

My point is, the battlefield is a dynamic place. Enemies don't stand in clumps directly opposite one another and then march in unison as a group, closing the distance between them. You might have to be flexible in your interpretation of these rules in order to make them fit the wide range of scenarios that can come up.

This is pretty much what I did in Warhammer. I also used some over-sized location cards if you know what those are. They helped with distances for those being at Engaged/Close/Medium at that specific location. And you could plop down a new card when someone moved down the road or atop the hill nearby at say Long or Extreme.

I've considered making a series of Location Cards (Warhammer style) for Star Wars but I'm not sure if they are needed and it would be a monumental task. They sure would be cool though. Hangar, Swamp, Evil Force Cave, Tundra, Icy Cave, Asteroid Field, Asteroid Cave, Towering Skyscrapper, Capital Ship Bridge, Trash Compactor, etc.

I just gamemastered the Force and Destiny Beginner Game for the first time last weekend. I like almost everything about it, but the range system did get frustrating during the final encounter.

It takes place in a temple where medium range is the length of one of the rooms, but adjacent rooms are long range apart from each other. Considering the fact that the Adventure Book lists "long range" as "down the street," my players and I all said, "My God, this must be a huge temple!" Add that to the fact that the character tokens are the same size as the rooms and it just became impossible to track anything.

Finally, we just got so sick of it that I invented a simple range tracker using an Excel spreadsheet. I said that every character that was in the same column was engaged. Characters one column away were within short range. Characters two columns away were within medium range, etc. For example...

A B C D E

Dao

Kiveri

Sarenda

Tarast

Mercenary 1

Mercenary 2

Malefax

Dao, Kiveri, Sarenda, and Tarast are all at engaged range from each other, short range from Mercenary 1 (one maneuver away), medium range from Mercenary 2 (two maneuvers away), and long range from Malefax (four maneuvers away).

Each maneuver allows the characters to move one column. So if Dao wanted to close in on Malefax, he would spend two maneuvers to move two columns…

A B C D E

Dao

Kiveri

Sarenda

Tarast

Mercenary 1

Mercenary 2

Malefax

Then Malefax could spend two maneuvers to move two columns to the left…

A B C D E

Dao

Kiveri

Sarenda

Tarast

Mercenary 1

Mercenary 2

Malefax

Now Dao, Mercenary 2, and Malefax are all engaged.

This spreadsheet is now our primary way of tracking the ranges between characters. We use the map only for a general reference of which rooms the characters are in, nearby items, terrain, etc. This method made things go a lot faster and eliminated lots of confusion.

I never thought that the beginner maps were to scale. In the end you had it right. They're just there to track general locations as a visual reference.