My apologies, Baron. I had something to say and had said it poorly, and so edited to nothing until I could collect my thoughts.

I think this version of DH2 will go to print no matter what is said. There is so very much vitriol here, in the forums, about this being so very divergent from what anyone expected. I think, maybe, if we just abandon the beta forums our silence may make the difference many of the naysayers would like to see.

And if not, oh well. We don't have to buy something we didn't want, and they can't make us.

?

My apologies, Baron. I had something to say and had said it poorly, and so edited to nothing until I could collect my thoughts.

I think this version of DH2 will go to print no matter what is said. There is so very much vitriol here, in the forums, about this being so very divergent from what anyone expected. I think, maybe, if we just abandon the beta forums our silence may make the difference many of the naysayers would like to see.

And if not, oh well. We don't have to buy something we didn't want, and they can't make us.

The thing is, silence is acceptance; without (hopefully constructive) criticism, progress towards what we, the players, what is nearly impossible. If we don't complain and propose alternatives, than we'll either end up with what we have, or something else that isn't necessarily better because we didn't take the time to evaluate it. Most of us want to like this product, and feel that it could be good. We haven't lost all hope, especially considering that most of the worst current issues aren't too difficult to fix.

I think we need to move away from sheer bashing on the system, which is understandable considering the Beta just came out and people are still new at it, and move towards finding actual solutions. This is a PnP RPG, you don't have to be a programmer to change how the system works, you just need to find a better solution. Most of us already houserule/cross pollinate our games, so it's not like changing rules to fit our interpretation of the system is anything new, and FFG is much more likely to adopt something we want to see if we already have it nearly spelled out (even better if it is widely recognized within the community) than if we just complain.

In any case, don't mind my excessive complaining and repetitiveness. It's just that I'm a grognard, and I like my 40k old fashioned and my RPG's consistent.

I think this version of DH2 will go to print no matter what is said. There is so very much vitriol here, in the forums, about this being so very divergent from what anyone expected. I think, maybe, if we just abandon the beta forums our silence may make the difference many of the naysayers would like to see.

Sadly, you're probably right. It reached this point despite the concerns of some of the play-test teams that the combat system had issues, and rather than address their concerns, they shoved it out the door as a 'beta', which to me smells of what the entertainment industry calls Executive Meddling.

You can always circumvent the forums entirely and start emailing suggestions in. I've been doing it, and FFG've openly said they're more likely to actually read emails.

You can always circumvent the forums entirely and start emailing suggestions in. I've been doing it, and FFG've openly said they're more likely to actually read emails.

No they aren't. Horizon and I both had to send the same repeated emails to FFG just to get a simple rules clarification. Took a week for them to read it. Considering I own, and am editor in chief of, Dark Reign and Horizon was a consultant on the book we were asking about, that's actually pretty crap. Paizo returns my emails on that sort of thing in a day, and I don't even run one of their major fan organizations.

You can always circumvent the forums entirely and start emailing suggestions in. I've been doing it, and FFG've openly said they're more likely to actually read emails.

Also, everyone sending emails independently does nothing to establish any form of consensus; you simply end up with a pile of suggestions with no prior quality control, most of which would not be considered any better than the current system by a non-negligible portion of the communityé