Missed opportunity I think...

By vargr, in Dark Heresy Second Edition Beta

You are right here, the GM could do it, but still the dice mechanics do not suggest doing it...

I don't get it. This is entirely the point of Degrees of Success/Failure. The more DoS you get, the better you do. The more DoF you get, the worse you do. I would argue that it's more straightforward and more flexible than a bunch of symbols.

The phrase you quote has to be read in connection with the rest of my post, so I'll briefly repeat it here. WIth the narrative dice pool you get 3 axis of results: main success-failure axis, secondary advantage-threat axis, you see what gave you the successes/failutes.

When you roll one die (with bonuses, penalties, etc.) you only get one axis, and you lose the information on why you were successful/failed... So, indeed you can rule a lot with just one die roll, but a dice pool of special dice makes it much easier as it gives you a lot of suggestions... I have played with both systems and that's what my experience tells me.

Now, I fully understand why FFG will still use d100 for DH2, and I think it's the correct move for them to make (my 1 cent opinion, of course). They'll have two great dice mechanics and everybody will be happy with the mechanics they choose... It's just that I would pay for a product+dice which ported this setting to the dice mechanics used for WF3, Edge of Empire, or an evolution of them, so just wanted to add my vote to this topic for this reason.

In summary, the mathematics of d100 (and d20 and d6 games) get in the way of the narrative. They are cool mechanics for tactics heavy games, but they disrupt story flow... People start looking at their statistics and making too many calculations in their minds and that disrupts play... In comparison, with the new mechanics you just know you are better at some skills and worse at others, but you don't have an exact comparison value: exactly as life works, so it's easier to get into the narrative.

I ran a oneshot of Edge of Emprie last night. The narrative dice are just amazing, they are incredibly easy to use and after

about 3 or 4 rolls everyone understood how to read them and were adding their own narrative to the game.

I had a single roll determine the outcome of a high stakes Pazaak game. There was enough information in a single dice roll for a detailed description of a complex outcome game (PC's won, pissed off a wookie who swore vengeance against them and got a Hutt lord arrested by an Imperial agent). Compared to what I would get from the dice in DH, its just a different class altogether. I might have made up the same story, but it wouldn't have been aided by the dice, beside the 'won the tournament or not' aspect.

Next time I run Dark Heresy, it will be with EoTE dice and system. it's just that much better.

Next time I run Dark Heresy, it will be with EoTE dice and system. it's just that much better.

The only question I have is how will you do so? If you make a conversion of some kind I'd love to see it.

If I make anything coherent, I'll share it for sure.

Doesn't look too hard, I plan at this point on simply giving EotE char values, using using DH characteristics and skills. That covers about 90% of the game. I'd need to think about Psychic powers, Insanity, Corruption, Talents, Influence, Subtlety and Gear. But I'll probably only do each roughly and make up specifics as I need them.

My problem with d100 systems is that they tend to have problems with scaling upwards. Eclipse Phase is one of the most elegant percentile systems I've played. It's fast and it's flexible, though it tends to not work that well in combats between unskilled combatants. But the real issue is that once you go beyond the human scales and start trying to assign strength scores for robots etc., you've run out of room at the top. In a system where a human's average strength is 11 and a very strong person has 17, I can make a super strong robot with strength of 30 or whatever and that's fine. When the average human has strength of 30% and a very strong one is 60%, where do I put the robot? You end up not being able to simulate it or with a pile of ugly bolt-on rules.

Edited by knasserII

My problem with d100 systems is that they tend to have problems with scaling upwards. Eclipse Phase is one of the most elegant percentile systems I've played. It's fast and it's flexible, though it tends to not work that well in combats between unskilled combatants. But the real issue is that once you go beyond the human scales and start trying to assign strength scores for robots etc., you've run out of room at the top. In a system where a human's average strength is 11 and a very strong person has 17, I can make a super strong robot with strength of 30 or whatever and that's fine. When the average human has strength of 30% and a very strong one is 60%, where do I put the robot? You end up not being able to simulate it or with a pile of ugly bolt-on rules.

It's my opinion that Characteristics should be capped for human PCs (60-70), that target numbers shouldn't be higher than 100, and that bonuses/penalties should be +/-5 rather than +/-10 increments. Unnatural Characteristics as used in Black Crusade and Only War are, in my opinion, an elegant mechanic for representing the pinnacle of Characteristics and Skills.

I also altered the manner in which DoS and DoF are determined: add 1 to the tens digit when determining DoS, subtract the tens digit from ten when determining DoF. Additionally, I've added another layer to Tests- Degrees of Difference (DoD). This is used for Opposed Tests, though not strictly against opponents.

By way of example...

A security system of a noble's estate might have a Rating of 3 (30, Good Craftsmanship), and rather than rule the player's Security Test is Very Hard (-30) I'll have him make an Opposed Test against the system's Machine Spirit instead. If the Acolytes were trying to break in to a secure Mechanicum facility, I might rule the security system was set by a highly skilled individual (Security Skill 50), using a Best Craftsmanship system (4), and each DoS on the Security Test to set the system results in an "unnatural" bonus added to the system's Rating- 3 DoS on the Security Test results in the security system having a Rating that reads as 40/+3, and the "unnatural" bonus is used exactly as Unnatural Characteristics, resulting in the system achieving 2 additional DoS (if successful) when the player makes his Opposed Security Test to disarm the system. If making the scenario ahead of the game session, I set the prerequisite number of DoD needed to disarm the system (anywhere between 2 and 5), otherwise the player simply needs to be successful and have more DoS than the system if it's an in-game "on the fly" situation.

I use the same House Rule when players are trying to get a junked bulldozer running so they can crash through the front doors of a narco-prince's warehouse hideout: The bulldozer is of Common Craftsmanship (2), but in disrepair, so it's rating reads as 20/-1, meaning the dozer's Opposed Test target number is 20% and it subtracts 1 DoS (to a minimum of zero DoS) from a successful Test.

This is the Rating system I use:

Poor (1), or 10%

Common (2)

Good (3)

Best (4)

Artificer (5)

Edited by Brother Orpheo

If I make anything coherent, I'll share it for sure.

Doesn't look too hard, I plan at this point on simply giving EotE char values, using using DH characteristics and skills. That covers about 90% of the game. I'd need to think about Psychic powers, Insanity, Corruption, Talents, Influence, Subtlety and Gear. But I'll probably only do each roughly and make up specifics as I need them.

Seeing as their core rules are very similar you cold perhaps check out Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.