It does seem like it would be reasonable to cap soak at something like 8-10. Maybe that's good fodder for a house rule. I am not terribly comfortable with the idea of having to build encounters for a party that includes a player with a 10+ soak. My concern is that I would have to ratchet up the difficulty or always include an enemy with a piercing weapon of some kind who is there just to counter that high soak. It would be hard to make such an encounter without risking overkill on the other party members.

This, a hundred times.

This discussion was had over and over in WFRP3, in the end, the only time high soak is a problem is when the GM is not creative enough to challenge the high soak PC. Arbitrarily capping soak is a problem, because you are taking that option away from the player that likes the idea of being hard to kill.

The alternate interpretation of pierce is a reasonable way to dealing with high soak characters if it really becomes a problem and a GM can't think of anything else, but as we have seen above, damage can far outstrip soak, so leave it be. It is not like these rules have not been play-tested and FFG is tossing rubbish at us.

Learn to be more creative, GMs, that is what this game is all about!

I can only add... How long has this game been going on? At some point in time, the story is going to end, or the group dissolve. I don't see a soak of 10-15 being all that difficult to deal with really, espically given the implications.

A character, any character that has been around that long is going to have a reputation. The PC's don't exist in a vaccum (space puns notwithstanding). Word will get around that they have a very tough hitter in the group. So try something ore subtle: poison, seduction, heck an advanced rival with an E-web can be terrifying. An auto-blaster (starship weapon) can be mounted as a defensive turret. dealing a base 30 damage on the personal scale. And for a little less money, hire someone to throw a thermal detonator at him.

Of course the old pit trap filled with acid also works on occasion. Or suffocation. Or Deus ex Rancorus ( a glowing rancor appears and eats you. make a new character)

Heck if he has cybernetic implants, hit him with a souped up ion blaster.

Besides, if this character has that high of a soak, what the @#^%& does the rest of the party look like?

I don't think high soak is a big deal.

When I lived in Africa, I knew a guy in school who wore a Grey Fedora everywhere. The guy just naturally looked like a guilty drug dealer. Every where he went he was stopped by security and searched. Heck back then they didn't have XRay in African airports. He got hauled off to the 'other room' for a more thorough frisking. (Often long enough for a gay p0rno video to be produced. :-) )

I'm saying that there may be implications to having an obviously high soak. Like... forcing the party the leave the Wookie at door security before coming in to negotiate. Or... giving him binders before letting him in... Disarming the entire party because anyone with that kind of tank in tow is bound to be trouble. Oh and getting searched. A lot.

IMO Edge of the Empire is not about being big and obvious. Its about laying low and staying in the shadows. Its about avoiding trouble untill you want to deliver it.

I'd caution any players who are contemplating being such a huge tank that there could be issues. Spotting a Wookie in a police line up may be hard. But the Wookie wearing heavy armour who's 2 feet taller may be easier to pick out.

It does seem like it would be reasonable to cap soak at something like 8-10. Maybe that's good fodder for a house rule. I am not terribly comfortable with the idea of having to build encounters for a party that includes a player with a 10+ soak. My concern is that I would have to ratchet up the difficulty or always include an enemy with a piercing weapon of some kind who is there just to counter that high soak. It would be hard to make such an encounter without risking overkill on the other party members.

This, a hundred times.

As written earlier max soak is 17, whereas max damage for a heavy blaster pistol when spending a destiny point is 28.

If you cap soak you completely throw off balance. It's fairly easy to get +10 damage on your weapon. There is no need to cap soak. Just use modded weapons and talents for your NPCs.

Plus, getting that high of soak is REALLY HARD TO DO! It would require you to have several specializations. At character creation, I don't think it is possible to get more than 7 Soak, if that's even doable. I don't think you'll typically be able to find many PCs with soak higher than 12 or 14. If they do get higher, chances are they are probably facing really strong dudes or they haven't put exp into a lot of other places.

I think everyone is missing one major issue.

Here's the facts:

1. Look, soak can get high, but it takes a TON of XP, a serious focus on soak above all else, and a huge amount of time/credits to accomplish.

2. Weapon damage alone can get past the soak value, so high value targets will still be able to take down high soak PC.

3. There are various weapon qualities that can circumvent soak making high soak targets easier to take down.

4. Someone that focuses that much on soak will likely have very diversification leaving a myriad of other vulnerabilities. They may have little to no strain, or their offensive abilities may be to low to damage an equally high soak focused enemy.

So high soak is capable, and the system has it's own checks and balances that can handle the situation. No need to house rule anything (although you certainly still can).

The bigger issue is something I haven't seen mentioned. Party diversification.

This game allows much more open character development than most other RPGs. This means the player characters could go in completely different directions with their development.

One character may focus on skills, another may focus on talents, another may focus on combat, and the last may focus solely on soak.

The big issue I see is having that one player focusing on soak will make the GM counter the high soak value. This will mean that the other players with considerably less soak will be in extreme danger unless they too focus on increasing their soak values to counter the high damage issues in play.

This will take a great amount of time to become an issue, and I'd hope experienced players would pressure their teammates to not outpace the rest of the party in this fashion, but only time will tell.

Depending on how XP is awarded, somewhere between 10-20 seems to be average, Just getting through 1 (one) Spec tree takes 300 xp? divided by 15 that equals 20 sessions, to get through 3 trees, assuming your high soak character is just grabbing specs/talents thats..~950-970 xp? for 3 trees? give or take a few games you're looking at 62+ sessions, assuming you are meeting every week thats over a year of gaming. if the game is every other week that's two or more years. IDK about your groups, but if we can get a good 3 - 6 months out of a game it's great, with a fairly long game running us about a year or so.

So is this an issue you're ever likely to have to deal with in game? I doubt it.

One concern with giving your NPCs upgraded weaponry to deal with a PC with high soak is that unless you add some specific reason why the PCs couldn't loot the weapons off of defeated enemies... the PCs will then have those weapons if they clear the fight.

One concern with giving your NPCs upgraded weaponry to deal with a PC with high soak is that unless you add some specific reason why the PCs couldn't loot the weapons off of defeated enemies... the PCs will then have those weapons if they clear the fight.

The same could just be accomplished by giving NPCs damage boosting talents.

There are a lot of ways to deal with seemingly lopsided encounters. Gear, talents, or...spending advantage and triumph creatively:

Exhibit A

Yeah, damage boosting talents is better, I was merely pointing out that people had suggested modified weapons and I've been in games where the PCs were overpowered, so GMs give better equipment to enemies... which then ends up in the hands of PCs who are more overpowered.

Yeah, damage boosting talents is better, I was merely pointing out that people had suggested modified weapons and I've been in games where the PCs were overpowered, so GMs give better equipment to enemies... which then ends up in the hands of PCs who are more overpowered.

Way easy to get around. Have a "dead man switch" installed in the item. Linked to a vitals monitor, the item overcharges and blows when vitals drop below a certain level. Or just have the item genetically coded/function off of a specific implant.

Yeah, damage boosting talents is better, I was merely pointing out that people had suggested modified weapons and I've been in games where the PCs were overpowered, so GMs give better equipment to enemies... which then ends up in the hands of PCs who are more overpowered.

Way easy to get around. Have a "dead man switch" installed in the item. Linked to a vitals monitor, the item overcharges and blows when vitals drop below a certain level. Or just have the item genetically coded/function off of a specific implant.

Or you guys were shooting at each other and the gun's gotten hit in the crossfire. Maybe you could fix it up, but the attachments are ruined.

Yeah, damage boosting talents is better, I was merely pointing out that people had suggested modified weapons and I've been in games where the PCs were overpowered, so GMs give better equipment to enemies... which then ends up in the hands of PCs who are more overpowered.

Way easy to get around. Have a "dead man switch" installed in the item. Linked to a vitals monitor, the item overcharges and blows when vitals drop below a certain level. Or just have the item genetically coded/function off of a specific implant.

Or you guys were shooting at each other and the gun's gotten hit in the crossfire. Maybe you could fix it up, but the attachments are ruined.

Exactly.

One concern with giving your NPCs upgraded weaponry to deal with a PC with high soak is that unless you add some specific reason why the PCs couldn't loot the weapons off of defeated enemies... the PCs will then have those weapons if they clear the fight.

Rigorous enforcement of the encumbrance rules.

One concern with giving your NPCs upgraded weaponry to deal with a PC with high soak is that unless you add some specific reason why the PCs couldn't loot the weapons off of defeated enemies... the PCs will then have those weapons if they clear the fight.

Rigorous enforcement of the encumbrance rules.

That does help, it's really hard to carry a lot of guns and armor in EotE.

Another way to avoid OP weapons is obligation. Carrying around heavily modified/customized weaponry is going to really stand out. Perhaps the person you killed has family that want his stuff back, or belongs to an organization that protects their gear. Maybe the bounty hunter you killed had a rival that really envied that blaster, or the fresh corpse stole that weapon from another bounty hunter that would very much like to have it back.

Is that weapon worth the heat and notariaty that comes with it?

One concern with giving your NPCs upgraded weaponry to deal with a PC with high soak is that unless you add some specific reason why the PCs couldn't loot the weapons off of defeated enemies... the PCs will then have those weapons if they clear the fight.

By the time the PCs have the Soak levels we're talking aobut, they likely have upgraded guns on par with what the bad guys have. I don't really think that this will be a problem as you can only carry so many back-up weapons.

Plus, getting that high of soak is REALLY HARD TO DO! It would require you to have several specializations. At character creation, I don't think it is possible to get more than 7 Soak, if that's even doable. I don't think you'll typically be able to find many PCs with soak higher than 12 or 14. If they do get higher, chances are they are probably facing really strong dudes or they haven't put exp into a lot of other places.

Lets see.

• Brawn 5
  • Wookie, trandoshan: Brawn 5 is 90 pts. (of 90 available)
  • Humans, Gands, Rhodians: Brawn 5 is 120 points (of 90-110)
  • Bothan, Twilek: 140 points (of 100 available)
  • Droid: 140 of 175
• Brawn 4
  • Wookie, trandoshan: Brawn 4 is 40 pts. (of 90 available)
  • Humans, Gands, Rhodians: Brawn 4 is 7 points (of 90-110)
  • Bothan, Twilek: 90 points (of 100 available)
• Cheapest Enduring talent is 30 points to get, including two prereqisites. (Tech: Mechanic) (a 5pt, then 10pt, plus the 15 pt Enduring)
• Cheapest Armor Master Talent is 30 points to get to (Bounty Hunter: Gadgeteer)
• best starting armor soak is soak 2, cheapest costs 500 (Padded) - 0pts. But Cr2500 Laminate (10 points) can be modded from 2 to (via Superior Armor Customization, Cr5000)

Droids can start soak 8.

That's Brawn 5 (20+30+40+50)=140 points

Add enduring talent: 5+10+15 = 30 points, total 170.

Add Cr2500: +10 ob; total Cr3000 , 10 ob.

5 points left for an extra class skill at 1.

Note that, with his/her first Cr5000, the droid can buy superior armor customization, and get -1 enc and +1 soak with that armor.

He sucks, but boy can that mechanic take the abuse...

Plus, getting that high of soak is REALLY HARD TO DO! It would require you to have several specializations. At character creation, I don't think it is possible to get more than 7 Soak, if that's even doable. I don't think you'll typically be able to find many PCs with soak higher than 12 or 14. If they do get higher, chances are they are probably facing really strong dudes or they haven't put exp into a lot of other places.

Lets see.

• Brawn 5
  • Wookie, trandoshan: Brawn 5 is 90 pts. (of 90 available)
  • Humans, Gands, Rhodians: Brawn 5 is 120 points (of 90-110)
  • Bothan, Twilek: 140 points (of 100 available)
  • Droid: 140 of 175
• Brawn 4
  • Wookie, trandoshan: Brawn 4 is 40 pts. (of 90 available)
  • Humans, Gands, Rhodians: Brawn 4 is 7 points (of 90-110)
  • Bothan, Twilek: 90 points (of 100 available)
• Cheapest Enduring talent is 30 points to get, including two prereqisites. (Tech: Mechanic) (a 5pt, then 10pt, plus the 15 pt Enduring)
• Cheapest Armor Master Talent is 30 points to get to (Bounty Hunter: Gadgeteer)
• best starting armor soak is soak 2, cheapest costs 500 (Padded) - 0pts. But Cr2500 Laminate (10 points) can be modded from 2 to (via Superior Armor Customization, Cr5000)

Droids can start soak 8.

That's Brawn 5 (20+30+40+50)=140 points

Add enduring talent: 5+10+15 = 30 points, total 170.

Add Cr2500: +10 ob; total Cr3000 , 10 ob.

5 points left for an extra class skill at 1.

Note that, with his/her first Cr5000, the droid can buy superior armor customization, and get -1 enc and +1 soak with that armor.

He sucks, but boy can that mechanic take the abuse...

Do recall that Droids start with 1 rank of Enduring for free at character creation. Just add Padded Armor and that character can have Soak 9 to start. If you drop that to around 6-7 you can have an effective character too.

The only way a droid could start with 8 is if they took 5 Brawn and bought Laminate or spend all of their starting credits on HBA, or if they bought some other 2 soak armor. Yeah, that's great, but remember that that's all they will be able to do. 8 soak at the start is totally reasonable. Yeah, they'll be really hard to hurt, and most weak dudes won't be able to touch them... until they start pulling vibro knives or until they start fighting dudes that have blaster rifles that deal 10 damage flat with no adjustments. You can't expect dudes that want to get shot at to not be good at getting shot at and not dying .

On a side note, totally forgot that droids had 1 free rank of Enduring. I played a Droid Bodyguard for a one shot and that would have been really useful!

On another side note, 17 is no longer the highest soak you can get! You can get 18 if you're a droid!

As written earlier max soak is 17, whereas max damage for a heavy blaster pistol when spending a destiny point is 28.

I'm sorry, but how would a Destiny point increase damage? I'm new to this system, but I don't remember reading anything about that. Did I miss something?

I'm sorry, but how would a Destiny point increase damage? I'm new to this system, but I don't remember reading anything about that. Did I miss something?

(Talent) Soft Spot : After making a successful attack, spend 1 Destiny Point to add damage equal to Cunning to one hit.

I'm sorry, but how would a Destiny point increase damage? I'm new to this system, but I don't remember reading anything about that. Did I miss something?

(Talent) Soft Spot : After making a successful attack, spend 1 Destiny Point to add damage equal to Cunning to one hit.

The talent Targeted Blow does the same, but with Agility.