I have recently been wondering a bit about how the variolus Cults of the Empire and the Colleges of Magic get along, and how they generally interact with each other, and I imagine I'm not the only one here interested in discussing it. It is partiallly a matter of fluff, but could also mean a great deal when it comes to roleplaying and storytelling - especially so if your party contains both a wizard and a priest, which I think is rather common.

I'm not terribly well read on Warhammer literature, and since neither my Education or Folklore checks gave much of a result, I depended on my Intuition skill to compile the unfinished table bellow:

The numbers are on a scale from 1 to 5, with the former meaning that that the organisations in question despise each other, and the latter meaning that they are close allies. Some of them can be deduced quite easily, for example:

• Morrites and Spiriters of the Amethyst order should be quite close as they are both concearned with death and the dead (I seem to recall having read about this somewhere).
• Ranald is a trickster god, and Grey Wizards are masters of magical deception. Both are honourless and shady, and are thus not only in the same proverbial boat, but might also often have need of each other's skills and services.
• The Cult of Ulric might think of magic users as cowardly and untrustworthy, and generally dislike them. Sigmar might be of a similar sentiment, but may tolerate them so long as their powers are used to serve The Empire.
• Those who follow warrior gods typically have a bit more respect the wielders of winds that are potent on the field of battle.
• Since wizards are intellectuals and seekers of knowledge, they share quite a bit of common ground with the devotees of Myrmidia and Verena, as these goddesses are patrons of learning.

That being said, I have the following questions:

a) Do these slightly educated guesses of mine make sense, or are there some very important factors I have overlooked?

b) Could any of you help me fill out the blanks and flesh out the outlines already drawn, so that we might develop something of a resource that might be of use to the community?

The numbers are on a scale from 1 to 5, with the former meaning that that the organisations in question despise each other, and the latter meaning that they are close allies.

...

• Those who follow warrior gods typically have a bit more respect the wielders of winds that are potent on the field of battle.
• Since wizards are intellectuals and seekers of knowledge, they share quite a bit of common ground with the devotees of Myrmidia and Verena, as these goddesses are patrons of learning.

You list two good reasons for the Cult of Myrmidia, Goddess of Strategy and Martial Prowess, to like a) battle wizards and b) wizards in general. Despite those two good reasons, you list the relations between her cult and the bright wizards at a very low "2". That puzzles me.

Also, you gave Sigmar's cult very high opinions of wizards across the board. Since the Witchhunters are the Templars of Sigmar, that seems like a mistake. Shouldn't devout Sigmarites be very suspicious of wizards?

EDIT: Rather than a 1 to 5 scale that could be misinterpreted, it may be more useful to either use words describing the relationship ("allies", "neutral", "suspicious", etc) or possibly dice codes (2 white to 2 black) for social checks. Either would make this chart easier to use in the middle of a gaming session.

You list two good reasons for the Cult of Myrmidia, Goddess of Strategy and Martial Prowess, to like a) battle wizards and b) wizards in general. Despite those two good reasons, you list the relations between her cult and the bright wizards at a very low "2". That puzzles me.

I can see that, but let me explain my thinking: Bright Wizards, like the powers they wield, are highly volatile and explosive in behavior, very unpredictable and impulsive. This seems to strongly contrast with the composed attitude and overly planned actions of the myrmidians, and thus I'd think that Pyromancers would be the least liked wizards amongst members of said cult. But yes, maybe it should be higher.

Also, you gave Sigmar's cult very high opinions of wizards across the board. Since the Witchhunters are the Templars of Sigmar, that seems like a mistake. Shouldn't devout Sigmarites be very suspicious of wizards?

Yes, that sounds about right and I'll adjust it. However, I think that when it comes to Sigmarites, it depends quite a lot on the individuals in question, and I have a hunch that they are more divided on the issue than the other cults. Some fanatical biggots might condemn all magic users in one fell swoop, but the cult is also fiercely devoted to an Empire whose laws allow magic to be practiced in regulated forms, and they should be expected to stand behind such an Imperial edict as an organisation, even if most of them harbour a personar distrust of wizards.

EDIT: Rather than a 1 to 5 scale that could be misinterpreted, it may be more useful to either use words describing the relationship ("allies", "neutral", "suspicious", etc) or possibly dice codes (2 white to 2 black) for social checks. Either would make this chart easier to use in the middle of a gaming session.

Those are some good suggestions, and I'll probably find a way to implement somemthing like it if this ends up going anywhere. The table above is just a very simple draft to get a rough idea of the matter, and I wouldn't do any serious writing at this early stage - more input is needed before that can be done.

There is official material on much of this.

There are no very warm and fuzzy feelings between cults and orders. The former suspect the latter and the latter hold radical views of the former. To the extent there are some connections they are such as:

Amethyst Wizards are associated with the Cult of Morr (TOM page 20), 2nd ed ROS page 71

Bright Oder no assoc. in TOM, expressly stated no good relations even with Cult of Sigmar in ROS.

etc.

Since this is all in published stuff I won't go to trouble of typing it all. It's under each order in TOM and consolidated more expressly on page 71 of ROS.

There is official material on much of this.

There are no very warm and fuzzy feelings between cults and orders. The former suspect the latter and the latter hold radical views of the former. To the extent there are some connections they are such as:

Amethyst Wizards are associated with the Cult of Morr (TOM page 20), 2nd ed ROS page 71

Bright Oder no assoc. in TOM, expressly stated no good relations even with Cult of Sigmar in ROS.

etc.

Since this is all in published stuff I won't go to trouble of typing it all. It's under each order in TOM and consolidated more expressly on page 71 of ROS.

Thanks for sharing, I'll get a better look at that when I have the time. I also suspect that there might be more relevant material in WoM and SoF, but as I haven't got a hold of either I would apreciate it if any of you could give a summary of what is written there. Also, it would be very nice if you could point me in the directions of the 2ed stuff, should you know how to find it (pdfs are preffered).

Another matter to take into acount would be the political intrigues and power struggles between these different institutions. The cults are all well established power blocks with particular agendas, but what about the college orders? They must certainly count some ambitious and power-hungry individuals amongst their numbers, but how involved are they in Imperial politics? Do they have much influence? Are they completely shut off in their ivory wizard towers, and to what extent do they have an agenda beyond getting better funding?

I may be mistaken, but it seems like the Colleges of Magic are generally growing in significance and influence, and might thus generally constitute a threat to the power of the cults. For that reason, it would generally make sense that the priests fear somewhat of a hostile takeover from the mages and thus would have reasons to scorn them - but then again, the clergy are mostly well-educated people who might be above the superstitious antipathies towards wizards that are held by the common folk. The wizards, on the other hand, may be more unanimously resentfull towards the cults for keeping them down, and as they themselves are also educated, they may be familiar of the hyporicsy and impious exploits of the cults and therefore have strongly anti-clerical sentiments.

You can buy Realms of Sorcery as a pdf from rpgnow etc.

I strongly recommend reading second edition Realms of Sorcery, as valvorik suggested. Great, great fluff. Second edition's description of the world is awesome. It gets really deep. For instance, you can check magical theory in Realms of Sorcery and Tome of Corruption, and see how it is connected to the physics of the world. And I love the idea that they give about the Grey Order that they are the investigators of the Orders, the ones that keep a watch over the other orders so they discover when someone is corrupted. That changes the superficial perspective about the Grey Order, and gives a deeper meaning that hides behind the facade of the sly ones.

I strongly recommend reading second edition Realms of Sorcery, as valvorik suggested. Great, great fluff. Second edition's description of the world is awesome. It gets really deep. For instance, you can check magical theory in Realms of Sorcery and Tome of Corruption, and see how it is connected to the physics of the world. And I love the idea that they give about the Grey Order that they are the investigators of the Orders, the ones that keep a watch over the other orders so they discover when someone is corrupted. That changes the superficial perspective about the Grey Order, and gives a deeper meaning that hides behind the facade of the sly ones.

Very interesting - it gives the fact that nobody trusts the Grey Order a bit more of a sinister edge, going beyond the fact that they are untrustworthy by their very nature. But, as this thingy I might develop will be a resource for 3rd edition, I will primarily base it on publications from that edition, and stick with it if there's any contradiction between it and older stuff. So, then, I would like to know how compatible the fluff from the two editions are.

completely compatible. it's the same scenario. the only difference is that second edition is based after the Chaos Storm, a huge war that comes near to destroying the Empire. we see a lot of fluff from third edition that seems to suggest that current description of the world is just a few years before the Chaos Storm happens. As it is, it might never happend at all, turning second edition world description as an alternate universe.

but the fluff about the Colleges describe them since their creation.

another thing is: Warhammer fluff tends to be purposefully vague regarding it's own assertion. it always leaves space for changes and for more to be created. one example is said Grey Order: the description about it's role as a watcher of corruption happening among the Orders says this is a secret, known only by part of the Order itself. it has to do with Ulgu (the grey magic wind) having to do with mysteries. so it could be something that has such minor participation in the world as a whole that it never comes up. and, also, maybe every Order has some wizards that aimed the possibility of corruption, so maybe this description of the Grey Order is how part of it's members see themselves as such. you could create another group of another Order that has the same perspective regarding themselves.

you have to read about the sects inside the different religions, man. second edition's description of the world is a blast! and it's instantly the same as third's. but with a much more profound approach.