They're fairly balanced, honestly. The only time I've seen them be outrageously broken is in Ascension. We don't talk about that.

I can remember our Psyker VERY well, using his spasm endlessly

But if the system will proove balanced now, I am convinced to give it a chance as is.

I am going to propose my idea to replicate on a meta-level the idea of sanctioning encouraging control, will-power and safer manifestation by keeping the psyker rule as is for the Sanctioned psyker.

In other words: Greater chances to manifest the lower Psy-rating that's used. Same as the current system.

The unbound/rogue//sorcerer/psyker would use the opposite mechanic, getting a -10 on the WP to manifest for each Psy rating less that he uses, encouraging him to use his "full rating", this trigger harsher phenomena when it actually happens. He would get a bonus to push as well, guaranteeing success, but loosing control.

I will post up a talent table for Psykers later on during the day.

I am going to propose my idea to replicate on a meta-level the idea of sanctioning encouraging control, will-power and safer manifestation by keeping the psyker rule as is for the Sanctioned psyker.

In other words: Greater chances to manifest the lower Psy-rating that's used. Same as the current system.

The unbound/rogue//sorcerer/psyker would use the opposite mechanic, getting a -10 on the WP to manifest for each Psy rating less that he uses, encouraging him to use his "full rating", this trigger harsher phenomena when it actually happens. He would get a bonus to push as well, guaranteeing success, but loosing control.

I will post up a talent table for Psykers later on during the day.

A very nice idea ! Looking forward to your post !

Well, this started as discussing the AAT background and somehow went on to discuss Sanctioned Vs Unsanctioned psykers.
I kinda see why, but it did not solve the original problem: ie: what if you want to be AAT but NOT A Psyker? I totally agree with the general sentiment that AAT should NOT equal psyker.

My solution: offer alternatives to the Psyker stuff.
Psyniscience became Medicae OR Psyniscience as I assume non-psykers AAT are in charge of the psykers themselves and so are the first to take care of them if they get wounded/faint etc. The alternative to this is allow AAT to use Psyniscience even without being psykers as their sense are closely tuned to the Warp even without being so open to it.

The psy-focus equipment become "Psy-focus OR Medikit" see above for the reasoning.

As for the special talent, I am not really sure what an appropriate telent for a non-psyker AAT would be. Any suggestions? I would think something protecting them from psy-powers slightly would be appropriate, but they already have the talent for that.

PS: AAT has been errataed that they start with Weapon Training (las) as well.

quote name="Morangias" post="822271" timestamp="1374780382"]

That's extremely constraining, and I don't think very accurate fluff-wise - or are only psykers ever counted among the ranks of AAT? The tough voidsman serving on a Black Ship? Sanctioned apparently. The clever scribe keeping tally of the transported wyrds? Also Sanctioned. The Emperor-damned Untouchable bounty hunter specializing in finding Wyrds and bringing them to the Black Ships? Apparently, also Sanctioned, and somehow able to see the Warp despite being a soulless abomination. Heck, the guy who fixes the Astropath's toilet is apparently also Sanctioned. Do these guys just open up all entry points on those Black Ships while hovering above the Imperial Palace and throw everyone out for sanctioning?

In the fluff the ranks of the AAT are all Psykers. Those who run the black ships are the silent sisters who are all women and untouchable. And so the best way to represent them would probably the AM background then take the untouchable elite advance. As for the Scribe he would actually be part of the administratum just loaned to the AAT record the transporting of wyrds. As for bounty hunters they would be an outcast or ex imperial guard and in fluff wise would be better suited for creation along these paths then paying for the need specialist advance.

In my mind both as a GM and player the AAT background should provide both sanctioned and Psyker talents as only individuals that are psykers are sanctioned then you can better represent the different roles pskers take by the roles sections. So warrior for those who served with the imperial guard, sage or mystic for those who are sent to serve with the inquisition directly etc. I would also like to see an option to take a sanctioned Psyker elite advance this would make players think do they take the cheap XP option and be a rouge or the more expensive but being sanctioned.

I do think there needs to be more elite advances that help further define characters in all roles backgrounds A lot like the background packages in the inquisitors handbook in first ed. This would help define characters such as a Moritat Assassin more than just a standard assassin who as the player who wants to be Moritat and therefore restricts him self to only non firearms weaponry. Homely this is already planed tho in a similar book to the inquisitors handbook.

Considering there's an utter lack of any indication that the Sisters of Silence made it out of the Horus Heresy alive, saying they guard the Black Ships is really just headcanon.

As the fact that the black ships exist at all is a lot of evidence. In pre heresy silent sisters are the only trusted guardians of the black ships as they are the only ones to be able to resist the psykers on board. There is also in one of the HH books one of the silent sisters burns out her untouchable ability to send back a message warning of the HH which suggests at least some survived. And in many of the books it's states how difficult it is to find untouchable even for the inquisition and even tho they are rare it shouldn't be that difficult to find them for an organisation such as the inquisition unless some other organisation had first selection.

I'm hesitant to acknowledge the existence of them in the 41st millenium when there's literally zero cases of them actually being shown.

Anyway, as for non-psyker Telepathica, I'd say it might be worth letting them keep the Psyniscience to represent their training and experience in the field, and perhaps have the option of replacing Sanctioning with something from the mental fortitude tree (Warp Sense, maybe, to further represent their experience in the area).

Don't mean to be belligerent but in the fluff the only members of the AAT are psykers, there are no mention of non-Psyker members. The way in which the backgrounds read to me the background you chose is the Adeptus you were previously part of or in the case of outcast the fact you were not in an Adeptus. So the AAT background should only be taken with Psykers. I know this limits selection but is this not the point of the background to focus the character on what they are be that Psyker, Arbiter, Guardsmen etc.

As in my previous post I think there needs to be more elite advances or similar to define characters better and things like being a scribe assigned to work with the AAT could be put within this.

If really everyone from the AAT is a psyker, then the psyker package should be dropped there and not with the Mystic.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/League_of_Blackships#.Ugo6B9Kzego

You do realize that in no place in any book there is any indication that the Silent Sisters still exist, right?

There are, however, mentions to minders, Inquisitors and sororitas in Black Ships, tending to the Psykers.

Even though I personally believe that most of them are kept drugged and asleep for most of the journey.

I would still go with a lesser sanctioning for non-psyker members of the AAT, some kind of conditioning to give them Resistance (Psychic Powers).

I know there are no direct indication that they still exist I still feel that they are the ones that crew the blackships from the small indications given by GW.

Much like until recently the only indication of the lost legions was the jump in legion numbers and the sheet with record purged where there should be records. I think GW have just never fully explored them in the 40k setting as they hate focused in other areas. I not read any mention to inquisitors or sororitas in them. Expect for inquisitors who have been on blackships as they are psykers and being taken to terra for sanctioning before they became inquisitors. I know there are mention of inquisitor storm troopers being used to guard those being held for the blackships but not on them themselves.

And sometime there is a confusion over The Blackships and the inquisitorial warships which are painted black but aren't true Blackships.

Really I think we could debate this forever but I know in my gaming circle the prevalent view is the sisters exist in the 40k setting just GW have never expanded on them as they see them as a limited interest area.

From the core rulebook, page 35:

"Though psykers dominate the bulk of this agency, there
are others. Numerous unblessed humans act as warders and
minders, all watching for any signs a psyker has become a
deadly threat."

Whatever else is said in canon, in this book, it seems Adeptus Astra are not all psykers. In addition, there might be psykers too weak to manifest any of the major disciplines, but still psykers, sort of minor psykers deemed too weak to be sacrificed to the Emperor but too valuable to just discard.

Whatever the type, the background should either offer the Psyker advantage OR provide alternatives for non-psykers. Alternatives are the one listed above with Medicae instead of Psyniscience, or an exception made that these people can have psyniscience over rank 1 due to them being psykers, just not very powerful ones.

Either way, some modification should be made on it to clarify the position.

Fluff wise, I thought that being an unsanctioned psyker bought you an instant free ride on the Black Ships. It's odd to me that an unsanctioned psyker would be working for the Inquisition in the first place. Have I missed something or is that odd anyway?

Only a more radical Inquisitor would keep an unsanctioned psyker onboard, generally. Although I've had psykers in my games who don't reveal their powers to the group OR the Inquisitor for half the campaign, which is a potential route for unsanctioned sorts.

Only a more radical Inquisitor would keep an unsanctioned psyker onboard, generally. Although I've had psykers in my games who don't reveal their powers to the group OR the Inquisitor for half the campaign, which is a potential route for unsanctioned sorts.

Good. I thought I'd missed some big fluff update. I can see radical Inquisitors using the unsanctioned. Even regular ones in the right circumstances (it's fine for the unclean to purge each other, right? ). But it's a pretty odd thing. Should not the default for any PC psyker be sanctioned and unsanctioned be some kind of flaw or something chosen as an option for the PC (perhaps with some mechanical bonus to represent their untamed nature and compensate for the day they get hauled away in chains?

You also have the problem that in the fluff there are a small proportion of Psykers who develop later in life and if they are useful are sanctioned and used. Currently there is no way to play one of these but take the AAT background. Really I think there should be two Psyker elite advances one sanction and one not with the one not being cheaper XP wise that would create an interesting choice do you go down the cheap path save XP for other advances or save more up for the sanction advance.

Isnt it easy to detect psykers with Psyniscience accourding to the skill description ?

Hidding will be quite hard when every Psyker can detect the psy rating with the warp nature subskill ?

Or can this subskill only be used while the psyker uses his powers actively...?

You also have the problem that in the fluff there are a small proportion of Psykers who develop later in life and if they are useful are sanctioned and used. Currently there is no way to play one of these but take the AAT background. Really I think there should be two Psyker elite advances one sanction and one not with the one not being cheaper XP wise that would create an interesting choice do you go down the cheap path save XP for other advances or save more up for the sanction advance.

I think that would put pressure on me as a GM to tolerate unsanctioned psykers in situations where I shouldn't.

GM: The battlesisters raise their handflamers with a collective hiss of 'witch!'.

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book.

GM: Look I told you when you created the character that unsanctioned psykers got put to death.

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book

GM: And I told you that Sanctioning is a very big deal in the setting.

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book

GM: And I told you that most inquisitors would put you to death as soon as look at you, let alone tolerate you as a valued acolyte.

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book

GM: You're not even directly engaged on Inquisitorial business right now! You're doing one of the side-quests and you're undercover.

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book

GM: ... Fine! Unsanctioned psykers are now tolerated in this setting, but they get dirty looks from people. Happy?

Player: But unsanctioned is an option in the book. Why should I get dirty looks?

Sanctioning has always been a big deal. This is a setting where unsanctioned psykers are rounded up and sent off-world on giant prison ships if they're lucky! And typically burned on a pyre if they're not. Even sanctioned psykers who are people on Holy Terra

have received special dispensation to live, are distrusted and excluded.

Unsanctioned should be an option for players who want that interesting twist, it should no way be a default for any player. Other than the suggestion that there should be two separate Elite Advances with different points costs, I fully agree with Vulken - fixing it to this single background is terribly restrictive. Just make Sanctioned a freebie with the Psyker advance and all your options suddenly open up.

Isnt it easy to detect psykers with Psyniscience accourding to the skill description ?

Hidding will be quite hard when every Psyker can detect the psy rating with the warp nature subskill ?

Or can this subskill only be used while the psyker uses his powers actively...?

It's slightly ambiguous but it implies that you can sense a psyker whether they are using their powers or not and the rules example given supports this in that it states the governor is not a psyker (thus implying they could be picked up if they were). And it gets better - you don't have to be a psyker to have psyniscience! You just can't raise it above Rank 1 if you aren't! Thus you can have non-psyker witch-hunters who just go off their low-grade feelings, changes of temperature around the psyker - that sort of spooky stuff. I imagine the false-positive rate is pretty high, but that's the Imperium for you: better a thousand innocents burn, than one heretic go free.

So yes, unsanctioned status can be a ready death sentence. Sure, you can rule that an Inquisitor allows special dispensation, but you're now reducing your story options and quite frankly, a lot of Inquisitors (most, I should say), would have you killed straight off.

From the Fluff a Psyker can tell if someone else is a Psyker. Obviously if there using a power it's easier but if not it harder. So I would be temped to say as a GM if your PC are trying to detect wether someone is a Psyker without the having used a power give them a -20 or -30 modifier. Meaning if there not a Psyker they will have no chance and if they are it will be difficult for low level Psyker to tell only when you get on to high XP characters would they be able to look at some and go WITCH, HERETIC BURN! and be right.

I would also chain sanctioning to the psyker package as an option.

If sanctioned, you get a negative trait like in DH1.

If Unsanctioned, you need to be very carefull not to be burned and you get the Corruption.

Regarding Psyniscience:

I think this is a tricky skill. I would rather limit the use of this skill to psykers only, even skill level 1.

Furthermore it might be a good idea to limit its use in general. This can be a big story killer otherwise.

A daemon in disguise (especially if hiding his presence), should be very hard to detect, otherwise a lot of plots will end way too early.

Similar with psyker-detection. Could be difficult for the GM if psykers can be easily detected right away, even without active use of psy powers.

I would prefer, that a psyker without active power use is very hard to detect (-30), while a daemon in disguise who hides his presence or touch on an individual should also get at least -30.

Spoiler Warning: dont read on, if you plan to do haarlock trilogy as a player

_----------------

If I think back to some campaigns like the second part of the haarlock trilogy with the mirror daemon in the cursed tower with the daemon-touched arbitrator chief...one psyniscience-check at the missions beginning could ruin the plot really bad.