Does anyone have an Imperial squad that drives "Han Shoots FIrst" lovers crazy? Please share, thanks!

"Dark Curse" plus 7 Academy Pilots. Shoot first all you want but there are more of us and we'll kill you in the end.

That, or 4 Academy Pilots, Mauler Mithel, Dark Curse and Howlrunner, if you want some variety.

More is better against HSF, and being able to put more guns on him is your best bet.

2 firesprays with ion cannon/ gunners and an interceptor

2 firesprays with ion cannon/ gunners and an interceptor

I really find that ion cannons miss out on alot of potential damage against han, and that ionization does nothing to counter han at all

You don't need to do a lot of damage, ion him off the board. Done.

It's not so much the ship choice as it is the tactics. I've flown HSF against various TIE swarms. I don't lose a lot of games when I fly this list. First thing is that you should target the X-wings first. If the support is A-wings or Y-wings go after Han first.

If the HSF list is using Marksmanship then you need to try and "bump" Han every turn. I've seen players fly TIE swarms and make mistakes on choosing between a critical hit and Han shooting again with the Gunner. It is a hard choice to make when a third of the deck is double damage crits and a TIE only has three hits to take.

That's interesting, why do you say take out the Xs first, but least the other support ships if they are not X-Wings? Is it the potential for damage against a base TIE?

Ties have a bit of a time bringing down agility 3 even in a swarm so a-wings are a big hassle, and 2 Y-wings end up being a similar amount of effort to kill as the Falcon itself so you should probably just try to take that down first. Also both have a lower attack profile and damage output than x-wings so they won't have the same impact.

Personally I pretty much always go after the Falcon with my swarm, the sooner its gone the better, I have found that with a few collisions and some luck I can take it down in 3 or 4 turns. If you are really canny and your opponent is slightly off the ball its not that difficult to crash him into asteroids and that will really wreck the falcon players day.

That's interesting, why do you say take out the Xs first, but least the other support ships if they are not X-Wings? Is it the potential for damage against a base TIE?

The reason you take out the x-wings first is they have the same base attack value as the Falcon (3) but have less than half the amount of shields/hull points. If you can take out 2 x-wings in the same amount of time as it takes to eliminate 1 falcon, you are essentially taking out 2/3 of the enemy firepower compared to 1/3.

All of the above are reasons why I go after the x-wings first.

Here is a link to my regional write up. Look at the semifinal game with the two different HSF lists.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/84921-june-8-2013-x-wing-regional-at-atomic-games-manitowoc-wi/

All of the above are reasons why I go after the x-wings first.

Here is a link to my regional write up. Look at the semifinal game with the two different HSF lists.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/84921-june-8-2013-x-wing-regional-at-atomic-games-manitowoc-wi/

You don't need to do a lot of damage, ion him off the board. Done.

Thanks for the input. That is a great write up.

I'm also going to try to bump Han off the board with the ions. I think that might be easier said than done since you have to hit him twice per turn to keep juggling him.

If you have 2 ion cannons, it's basically a hit vs 1 defend dice

I think you can kill Han faster than 1 movements would take him off the board. Hell the rebel player could just park an xwing in front and force crashes. It's a terrible imperial strategy. That takes a minimum of 72 points to pull off.

Tonight I killed Han in 3 rounds using a bounty hunter 4 academies and howlrunner

If you know that your opponent is going to play HSF and you have the ships, 4 Storm Squadron TIE Advanced with Cluster missiles will annihilate the Falcon in one turn of glorious missile fire (assuming that you target lock at range 3 on one turn, then close, focus and fire on the second and his action isn't an evade and that you're not REALLY unlucky with die rolls).

You then have 3-4 TIE Advanced to take out 2 X-wings... not bad odds

Disclaimer - this is a bad list in general, it's just pretty good against lists with a lot of points invested in one or two low defence ships.

2 firesprays with ion cannon/ gunners and an interceptor

This is actually a terrible squad against HSF. You have 2 Firesprays trying to "ion Han off the board" while Han plus his escorts just rip you a new one... I mean all he has to do is kill the interceptor. Then you just have to stop using ion cannons or he will outdamage you so bad its not even funny. Chances are that at this point you will be badly behind already.

Plus it won't work half of the time since eventually you will miss an ion cannon shot for example if he has Falcon upgrade, or you just plain miss a shot because of bad dice roll, negating all your efforts.

That's interesting, why do you say take out the Xs first, but least the other support ships if they are not X-Wings? Is it the potential for damage against a base TIE?

Yes, A-Wings except for their missiles don't do a lot vs. Standard Ties and are difficult to kill for standard Ties.

Han is easy to hit for Ties and kills them pretty fast in return.

Y-Wings are generally bad versus Academy Ties since they have the same firepower as A-Wings except for their ion cannon which might occasionally ion a Tie which is no big deal in a swarm.

So target priority is in this case very easy. Kill Han and leave the ships that can not kill you very fast for afterwards. Then hopefully your numerical advantage in absence of the Falcon will lead to victory.

"Dark Curse" plus 7 Academy Pilots. Shoot first all you want but there are more of us and we'll kill you in the end.

That, or 4 Academy Pilots, Mauler Mithel, Dark Curse and Howlrunner, if you want some variety.

More is better against HSF, and being able to put more guns on him is your best bet.

Sadly you are right. These are probably still the best lists against HSF out there. They also are still great lists in any matchup. The Swarm was never dead at all if you ask me.

So they gave the Empire all this fun stuff, and in the end you have to go back to Wave 1 meta to beat stupid Han... awesome!

My tip against HSF would be 3 Bounty hunters. It's a lot of hitpoints even for Han to cut through and because of the rear arcs you have (with decent firepower too), it will be more difficult to dodge all firing arcs for Han. Its also one of the few Lists (the other being a Swarm) I have actually won against HSF with more than once...

If you know that your opponent is going to play HSF and you have the ships, 4 Storm Squadron TIE Advanced with Cluster missiles will annihilate the Falcon in one turn of glorious missile fire (assuming that you target lock at range 3 on one turn, then close, focus and fire on the second and his action isn't an evade and that you're not REALLY unlucky with die rolls).

You then have 3-4 TIE Advanced to take out 2 X-wings... not bad odds

Disclaimer - this is a bad list in general, it's just pretty good against lists with a lot of points invested in one or two low defence ships.

What will probably happen in reality is that you will target lock, Then Han will do a speed 4 manoeuver straight at you so half of your squad will just fly past him or he rams you, denying you shots. You might get a shot with one or two of your missiles. At that point Han and his X-Wings will kill one of your Advanceds preferably one that still has its missiles. He will then start turning with your Ties and denying them some shots while blasting away with his 360 arc. And that is pretty much the end, since the X-Wings are untouched and Han does craptons of damage, even to Tie Advanceds. You might get him in the end, but it will probably too late.

HSF is a really strong squadron, and cluster missiles seem like a counter, but if the Han player knows how to counter it, you will not get all of those missiles off and then he will outdamage you badly.

Being out-maneuvered is always a danger with missile lists but you can mitigate the risks with appropriate deployment of ships/asteroids. In the above scenario, Han might not be able to shoot 4 forwards because you've appropriately staggered your advanceds, or there's an asteroid in the way. There are a lot of variables.

One of the things I like about this game is that in general the better player wins, regardless of lists (and with some extreme exceptions). It's possible to lose against a better player even when playing a matchup that looks favourable on paper.

Actually it is pretty often the luckier player that wins too.

But still every low pilot skill missile list I have ever seen except 4 Green squadron A-Wings with Deadeye has disappointed me. The reason is that because of their low pilot skill they hardly ever get to shoot the missiles the turn they Target Lock. And if they don't like you suggest the other player just needs to Dash straight at them to avoid all the missiles being shot. Even at range 3 and if the Missile list player goes as slow as he can, ships will shoot past each other or ram each other avoiding a lot of the missiles. After that it comes down to maneuvering, skill and luck. But its just the fact that obliterating the Falcon in one turn is not as easy with this squad as it seems.

This is also a problem any low pilot skill with missiles has versus any higher pilot skill list, it is not only your list versus HSF. Also this is not an underground tactic. it is generally what you need to do against low pilot skill missile lists (except with Deadeye), even if it is cluster missiles that only go range 1-2. You still deny a lot of them getting shot. Ideally you even get to range 2 the turn missile ships need to target lock. They can't lock when they move at their initiative level, then you move to range 2 with higher skill pilots. The turn after you have no problem flying past them and denying them missile shots again or force them to K-Turn and not getting a lock again.

Getting all the missiles off in one turn is probably wishful thinking but staggering your TIEs to block Han's movement (the Falcon's large base is a drawback when it comes to skipping over the lead ships without colliding with the rear ships), choosing approach vectors that are more interesting than everything in a line abreast heading straight for the Falcon and feinting for either the X-wings or the Falcon before switching to the true target of your attack can all help you win the fight for position.

I'm not saying that the points you've raised aren't valid - I still remember the first time I tried to use torps with rookies with cringe-worthy levels of embarrassment. I'm not saying that missiles are always the way to go - 16 points spent on cluster missiles here could go on shield upgrades, an elite TIE, whatever. I just think that the survivability of TIE Advanced paired with the damage yield of clusters vs AG1 ships poses problems for HSF.

I've played against the four advanced with missiles. While my opponent is focusing on Han, the X-wings chew the advanced up. The also can't close out the game in a two on two Xs vs Advanced.

Do you think things could have gone differently if the TIEs had targeted the X-wings with missiles at the beginning? Would Han have any trouble taking out the Advanced by himself?

I came up against a HSF list and spanked it this weekend in a local (very friendly) tournament. My list was:

I took 4 academy and 4 black sqd ties against HSF this weekend, mashed him up with 5 ties left on the board at the end of the game. Took out the x-wings first, as has been mentioned, they bring the 'possible dead ties' a turn from 3 down to 1 once they are gone. The Falcon is an incredible ship, but at the end of the day, it can't defend itself if shot at, and it can only shoot 1 tie a turn, with a max of 4 damage. Once the x-wings are gone, you can focus him down and swamp him with collisions (mitigating marksmanship or TLs). Once the x-wings were gone, it took 2 turns to kill him with my 6 remaining ties (losing one more in the process). That being said, a prototype a-wing with assault missiles instead of an x-wing can really ruin your day with 8 ties flying in formation.

ps once you get hans shields down, not too bad with 5 (6 with chewbacca), the crits can really hurt him... 8hp is a long time to live with crit effects.