simple really,

let's say i wanted to hurl a Tie-figther at a group of stormtroopers, a Tie have a Silhouette of 3-4 ish, but lets say 4

now, how manny force points do i need,

1 point for basic power and 4 for silhouette 4?

so the attack pool is, "force dice + Discipline" so, if i get the force points and score 1 on discipline, i do 40 points of damage? seeing as they can't defend themself ?

In the rules, the only way you can move an object of size above 0 is to have Strength Upgrades equal to the silhouette of the object you're trying to throw, you may not activate the Strength Upgrade multiple times.

When you attempt to attack with an object, the difficulty of attacking with it is equal to the Silhouette of the object being thrown (it's a struggle to even lift a object as big as a TIE Fighter, let alone throw it at someone). At this point it's up to the GM how many targets would be hit, possibly requiring advantage to activate a Blast type effective (otherwise everyone but the target hit dodges out of the way).

So it would require you to get two Light Side pips, and a TIE Fighter is Silhouette 3 so you'd then make a Hard Discipline check (If you attempted to attack at further ranges, I would increase the difficulty, as per ranged attack rules... and you would require more Light Side pips). The damage done would be 30 and it would require 2 Light Side pips unless the GM says otherwise.

Personally, I'd probably make it harder, because Force Unleashed is pretty much the only place where people attack with objects larger than about Silhouette 1 and the people doing that are Jedi Masters and as a GM, I base my view of the Force (especially for this game) on the Original Trilogy.

yeah, never liked force unleashed, thats why i wanted to get clear in the rules, Thanks

Getting to the point where a player could attempt to even throw a TIE Fighter costs 80 experience points (20 to buy into Force Exile, 10 to buy into Move, 35 on 3 Strength buffs, 5 on a Range, and 10 on the Control power that lets the object be thrown).

This gives them a single Force Die (with a 3 in 12 chance of having enough Light Side pips to activate the power and throw the object and a 1/12 chance of having Dark Side pips for it) and leaves them to try to successfully make the Discipline check (they'll need to have put a good amount of Exp in Discipline and Willpower to have any decent chance of hitting with that TIE Fighter).

So it's unlikely to happen early in the game, they'll either have terrible stats for it or will have gained a lot of experience after playing for awhile. And the GM is still free to make things harder. Using it against any enemy who couldn't easily be taken out by a Blaster will be a pain because then you're dealing with a Hard attack that's also getting upgraded.

Well, also consider that both the TIE Fighter and the stormies would have to be within Short Range, otherwise you'd need a third Force Point to activate a Range Upgrade.

As for hitting multiple stormies, that depends on if they're working as a minion group or not. By the rules, if they're operating as a minion group, then that hurled TIE Fighter (Silhouette 3) would deal 30+successes damage to the entire group, even if said groups is spread out all over the map.

Is it a powerful attack option? Yep, but it's also blatant as hell, and should there be any witnesses, particularly civilian, guess who's going to be reported to the local Imperial authorities as "one of them dangerous Jedi types"? There was a reason that Vader's instructions to Starkiller on each of his missions were "no survivors."

But there's also the matter of having spent the XP to buy those Strength Upgrades, and then having an object that big lying around so that you can throw it. Under most circumstances, you're probably going to be limited to Silhouette 2 (most speeder-class vehicles) as for what's available. And that with a Force Rating of 1, getting those multiple Light Side Force Points you need to activate both the basic power and those Strength Upgrades is far from a sure thing.

I do plan on doing attacks like this using Discipline as a ranged attack skill, though, since you're basically throwing something with your mind. If the item is at least sillhouette one, I'll just increase the difficulty (set by the distance between the items being thrown and the target etc) and just kinda roll with it.

I do plan on doing attacks like this using Discipline as a ranged attack skill, though, since you're basically throwing something with your mind. If the item is at least sillhouette one, I'll just increase the difficulty (set by the distance between the items being thrown and the target etc) and just kinda roll with it.

The difficulty is also supposed to increase based on the size (where base difficulty dice = silhouette for all buy size 0). That's for short range, so then you'd increase based on range past that (provided they had the necessary upgrades).

Or that might be what you're saying already. Aside from the difficulty boost based on silhouette, the only possible difference between the Discipline check and the ranged attack is that the RAW doesn't mention bonus damage per success, just flat damage and that you need to get enough Light Side pips to activate the power.

With the whole move tree and Force rating 2 and converting at most 1 dark side point to light on the die roll, the player has a 43% chance of making the roll to be able to fling 4 silhouette objects out to extreme range. If you only want to fling 1, then it is a 66% chance.

The only thing I can see here is that I am not sure that character silhouette and vehicle silhoutte are the same thing. That still leaves you with the ability to fling 4 RANCORS out to extreme range tho.

So why are people complaining about no Jedi?

So why are people complaining about no Jedi?

Because people complain that it's expensive to become an awesome force-user in this game and you can't do this amazing stuff every time you try it. And also no bring down imperial star destroyers with this system.

After reading this thread, I now know what my fallen Jedi adversaries are gonna do... Thanks all!

With the whole move tree and Force rating 2 and converting at most 1 dark side point to light on the die roll, the player has a 43% chance of making the roll to be able to fling 4 silhouette objects out to extreme range. If you only want to fling 1, then it is a 66% chance.

You can convert any number of Dark Side pips you want per roll, it simply costs 1 Destiny it allow you to do it at all, then you take strain equal to the number of pips you use.

We have a character who completely specializes in move in my campaign. It is a concept that was created in the old d6 WEG game, and got ported to EotE. The main thing he needed to be able to do jump far... and force control vibroknives. His character is quite a bit less powerful than he was in d6, and he spent more than half his XP to be created this way... and took a 15 Obligation but he works pretty similar.

He has size upgrade (to Sil 1), Range upgrade to Medium... and the damage upgrade. This allows him to throw one enemy into another if they are close enough, damaging both for 10 (minus soak), or throw one into a wall same damage... or Throw a dagger using Discipline instead of normal skill... plus uses 5 damage per force damage instead of dagger damage (which on his character would be only 4 i think.) he just has to have enough pips.

I do plan on doing attacks like this using Discipline as a ranged attack skill, though, since you're basically throwing something with your mind. If the item is at least sillhouette one, I'll just increase the difficulty (set by the distance between the items being thrown and the target etc) and just kinda roll with it.

The difficulty is also supposed to increase based on the size (where base difficulty dice = silhouette for all buy size 0). That's for short range, so then you'd increase based on range past that (provided they had the necessary upgrades).

Or that might be what you're saying already. Aside from the difficulty boost based on silhouette, the only possible difference between the Discipline check and the ranged attack is that the RAW doesn't mention bonus damage per success, just flat damage and that you need to get enough Light Side pips to activate the power.

Yea, since they don't really have in-depth rules on how to throw items at people besides "it works like ranged combat," so I'm kinda just smashing the rules together. That's generally what I was saying. It would work with the difficulty of a regular ranged attack (if you are throwing it at someone as a weapon, that is. Otherwise there's no check for a ranged attack. Hitting a moving object is tricky). The difficulty would just be increased by its silhouette.

So, for example, if you used Move to throw a dead battle droid at another battle droid, and rolled enough pips to do so with the necessary upgrades, and the droids were in close range, it would be one Difficulty dice for the range, and one Difficulty dice for actually physically moving the droid (silhouette one) for two total. I'd then make a discipline check for the combat roll and go with that.

Also, I would add extra damages based on successes because that makes sense. The more successes, the squarer the hit. And, if the target had cover or ranged defense from something else, I would add that accordingly. So shields, armor, cover, and adversary talents would be applied.

So... I'm just realizing that RAW it's possible to lift and throw a freighter... even with as difficult as the dice costs would make it, that's absurd to me (I don't care for the Force Unleashed level of power, or some of the more extreme uses of the Force in the prequels.) Lifting an X-Wing is an absolutely impressive moment in ESB, and it takes a long time even for Yoda. I'm not necessarily bothered by the idea of lifting the Millennium Falcon with the Force, but throwing things beyond the size of a crate somehow makes the Force less awesome.

So... I'm just realizing that RAW it's possible to lift and throw a freighter... even with as difficult as the dice costs would make it, that's absurd to me (I don't care for the Force Unleashed level of power, or some of the more extreme uses of the Force in the prequels.) Lifting an X-Wing is an absolutely impressive moment in ESB, and it takes a long time even for Yoda. I'm not necessarily bothered by the idea of lifting the Millennium Falcon with the Force, but throwing things beyond the size of a crate somehow makes the Force less awesome.

I agree with you, both Dooku and Yoda were taxed by the effort of bringing down/ catching both the ceiling and the support pillar. That said, Sidious was throwing those senate pods like a boss in ep. 3.

So... I'm just realizing that RAW it's possible to lift and throw a freighter... even with as difficult as the dice costs would make it, that's absurd to me (I don't care for the Force Unleashed level of power, or some of the more extreme uses of the Force in the prequels.) Lifting an X-Wing is an absolutely impressive moment in ESB, and it takes a long time even for Yoda. I'm not necessarily bothered by the idea of lifting the Millennium Falcon with the Force, but throwing things beyond the size of a crate somehow makes the Force less awesome.

I agree with you, both Dooku and Yoda were taxed by the effort of bringing down/ catching both the ceiling and the support pillar. That said, Sidious was throwing those senate pods like a boss in ep. 3.

As far as Yoda and Dooku go, perhaps they simply got a bad roll on their Force Dice.

Figure Dooku had a Force Rating of 5 normally, Yoda's got a Force Rating of 6. They've each got both of the Sense Ongoing Effects up and running, leaving them with 3 and 4 dice during the AotC fight. Dooku, being a Sith Lord, needs to roll Dark Side, so maybe he got a bunch of Light Side results a couple times during that scene, being fatigued (i.e. took Strain) in order to convert those pips and have enough for the Strength and Range Upgrades he needed.

For Yoda on Dagobah, I never took that as him being exhausted, but rather disappointed, and his sigh was more a sigh of frustration that he had to resort to using his power to get Luke to open his eyes to what the Force could really accomplish if one put their will to it.

So... I'm just realizing that RAW it's possible to lift and throw a freighter... even with as difficult as the dice costs would make it, that's absurd to me (I don't care for the Force Unleashed level of power, or some of the more extreme uses of the Force in the prequels.) Lifting an X-Wing is an absolutely impressive moment in ESB, and it takes a long time even for Yoda. I'm not necessarily bothered by the idea of lifting the Millennium Falcon with the Force, but throwing things beyond the size of a crate somehow makes the Force less awesome.

Yeah... this goes with a lot of things I think video games have ruined about the force. Lightsabers for example.

In a gunfight.. who would pull out a sword? No one.

That is what was SO COOL about lightsabers. Here was a weapon that COULD actually hold its own... deflect blaster bolts, etc. But what have the video games given us? Vibroswords that can stand up to lightsabers and fight with them (and actually not be cleaved in twain? WHAT?) It really dumbed down the awesomeness of sabers to me.

Yeah... this goes with a lot of things I think video games have ruined about the force. Lightsabers for example.

In a gunfight.. who would pull out a sword? No one.

That is what was SO COOL about lightsabers. Here was a weapon that COULD actually hold its own... deflect blaster bolts, etc. But what have the video games given us? Vibroswords that can stand up to lightsabers and fight with them (and actually not be cleaved in twain? WHAT?) It really dumbed down the awesomeness of sabers to me.

But seriously, in a galaxy full of jedi and sith (i.e. Old Republic era, when there were plenty of them around) can you honestly expect people to not make a weapon that can contend with them? I mean, come on. People are so good at killing eachother. You can't honestly say that making a sword vibrate super fast so that it can slice even easier doesn't make sense, especially when it also doubles as a counter-weapon to the fabled Lightsabers.

So many people harsh in on really basic, sensible things that the EU has done. I don't understand why so many people seem to want the EU to just not exist at all. Star Wars wouldn't be a legacy without the EU. It would just be a couple of good movies.

For Yoda on Dagobah, I never took that as him being exhausted, but rather disappointed, and his sigh was more a sigh of frustration that he had to resort to using his power to get Luke to open his eyes to what the Force could really accomplish if one put their will to it.

I didn't think it exhausted him, just that moving things like that with the Force took real concentration because moving the X-Wing took time. That single scene has always made the Force seem far more impressive than the ones where people were casually using it to leap around like a maniac or play catch. Even the slower pace of the Lightsaber duels gave them a weight. Each move was carefully considered, it felt like as much a duel of minds as a duel of reaction. It's less visually exciting, but it made things feel important.

My problem with that interpretation of lightsaber battles is that that isn't how wars are fought. If all Jedi and Sith fought like that against non-jedi or Sith, well, they wouldn't be nearly as big of a threat as they are.

My problem with that interpretation of lightsaber battles is that that isn't how wars are fought. If all Jedi and Sith fought like that against non-jedi or Sith, well, they wouldn't be nearly as big of a threat as they are.

You see Luke's combat style being more dynamic against... people who aren't Vader, since that's the only other Lightsaber wielder he fights in the movies. Quick deflection of blaster bolts and then moving in for an attack if needed.

I suppose. I can't say that I PREFER that to the more dynamic lightsaber fights you see in other media, though. I have no problem with flashy force use, personally XD.

So... I'm just realizing that RAW it's possible to lift and throw a freighter... even with as difficult as the dice costs would make it, that's absurd to me (I don't care for the Force Unleashed level of power, or some of the more extreme uses of the Force in the prequels.) Lifting an X-Wing is an absolutely impressive moment in ESB, and it takes a long time even for Yoda. I'm not necessarily bothered by the idea of lifting the Millennium Falcon with the Force, but throwing things beyond the size of a crate somehow makes the Force less awesome.

I agree with you, both Dooku and Yoda were taxed by the effort of bringing down/ catching both the ceiling and the support pillar. That said, Sidious was throwing those senate pods like a boss in ep. 3.

As far as Yoda and Dooku go, perhaps they simply got a bad roll on their Force Dice.

Figure Dooku had a Force Rating of 5 normally, Yoda's got a Force Rating of 6. They've each got both of the Sense Ongoing Effects up and running, leaving them with 3 and 4 dice during the AotC fight. Dooku, being a Sith Lord, needs to roll Dark Side, so maybe he got a bunch of Light Side results a couple times during that scene, being fatigued (i.e. took Strain) in order to convert those pips and have enough for the Strength and Range Upgrades he needed.

For Yoda on Dagobah, I never took that as him being exhausted, but rather disappointed, and his sigh was more a sigh of frustration that he had to resort to using his power to get Luke to open his eyes to what the Force could really accomplish if one put their will to it.

Tho it dosent really mean anything, the Beta says you are one low. Yoda would be 7 and Dooku 6.

Even still tho, the probablitity of not getting 3 pips of the appropriate color on 5 dice is under 10% and probably close to 1%

The thing is, Yoda could have tossed Dooku's shuttle half a kilometer on only 2 pips, assuming he has most of the Move tree.