The rules already say you can pick either Agility or Brawn.

Different lightsaber forms leading to using different characteristics one day...? YES PLEASE!!

That and just because a player found one doesn't mean he'll be able to meet the 10,000 credit price tag, assuming the cost isn't altered.

You mean over 40,000 credits, given the rarity modifier.

What are your thoughts?

Setting the issue of house rules aside for the moment, I would not make the acquisition of such an elegant weapon anything less than monumentally symbolic in an EotE campaign. The journey of attainment should transform the character from aimless drifter to man with a purpose. Probably would make a nice segue into an Age of Rebellion campaign.

That's my current plan. If anyone plays a FSE in my campaign, I'm going to introduce the lightsaber at the climax of the last adventure before switching to AoR, either just before or during the final confrontation. Rarity and price aside, the introduction of a lightsaber to a EotE game should not be as clumsy or random as a blaster. It should show up when best suits a group's individual game.

As to use/dice pools I think people are missing something pretty basic. Yes, anyone can use one and the untrained brawn/agility seem fine for this, but Jedi can do amazing things with them.

Think about Luke on the Falcon in a New Hope. His first practice session the probe hits him with ease, untrained agility. Obi Wan tells him to reach out and use the Force, next thing you know he parries several shots without problems. Sounds like someone let the Force guide him, sounds like a use of will to me.

Should be interesting to see how they swing this, but for my games there'll be a huge difference between untrained and trained usage.

In my game where I expect to see light sabers and their appropriate skill would be more a matter for an NPC.

PC's can't start with anything related to light sabers and I don't think My PCs are likely to purse it any time soon. But I do think I might allow Light Saber to be the one and only skill associated with the Force Exile Tallent Tree. I like what others have pointed out using will as the stat for the Light Saber skill itself. though I might allow someone to use the melee skill with the difficulty upgraded. That means that if they ever wanted to learn the correct way to use light saber they would have to "unlearn what they have learned" I kind of like that.

Upgrading a difficulty die to red when a Lightsaber is wielded by someone who doesn't have the Lightsaber skill sounds entirely reasonable to me. They're incredibly dangerous, and should have a real chance to slice through something a clumsy wielder didn't want to slice if waved around in combat. If someone wants to take that chance, or keep flipping Destiny points to negate it, let them. Just make it clear that you won't just have the Despair result strike the guy wielding the lightsaber- anyone standing near him is also fair game. If your players are anything like mine, this will have them taking matters into their own hands, screaming "Put that %&*$@?# thing away before you hurt someone!" every time it's produced in combat and eventually confiscating it if it (and the player trying to use it) prove too problematic.

Of course, the best way to deal with an untrained lightsaber user is to show them the simple reality of the fact that by using one, he's bringing a sword to a gunfight. Have him gunned down with blaster fire. Seriously, picture every single battle scene involving a Jedi, and then imagine how it'd go if the person wielding the lightsaber didn't have the Jedi-trained ability to deflect blaster bolts. It was the Jedi wielding it that made the lightsaber so legendary, not the innate qualities of the weapon itself. As has been pointed out earlier in this thread, other weapons can be just as nasty based purely on stats.

Finally, while what I said above makes sense to me, I do feel that the best argument here has been that lightsabers shouldn't be showing up in Edge of the Empire anyway. They're near-impossible to find for a reason. Unless you have a genuine reason why you want it to be otherwise- just don't have a lightsaber show up in your campaign. You're the GM, and it's your call.

As for the point about how if the players take down an NPC Sith or other Force-User who had a lightsaber- seriously, what sort of nerfed Sith is that GM throwing at the players? A typical Edge of the Empire player group shouldn't be able to take down an adversary like that until they've got a serious amount of XP. And, if they do have that much XP that they're realistically able to beat a Sith, then they're at the point where one of the PCs picking up a lightsaber and trying to rediscover the lost arts of the Jedi is becoming a realistic option (albeit one the current rules don't support).

That and just because a player found one doesn't mean he'll be able to meet the 10,000 credit price tag, assuming the cost isn't altered.

You mean over 40,000 credits, given the rarity modifier.

As much as I am inclined to agree, rarity multipliers are only used on trade goods in bulk I believe... The paragraphs following the tables 5-2 and 5-3 state something to that effect.

My point was not to try to punish people for wanting to have a Lightsaber but to try to come up with a way to show how difficult a weapon it is to use and to demonstrate why it only seems to be used by Force users.

Others have stated this before, but defaulting to characteristic dice will make it very hard to use effectively in combat. The Jedi/Sith had the ability to block bullets effectively, but even that didn't seem to do them a ton of good when Order 66 was initiated. The very fact that, per GM fiat, a character can't get training with it will more than make up for whatever preceived benefits they have.

However if you do feel obligated to reinforce the point, throw in a couple of setback dice or give it the inferrior quality so that it always generates 1 threat.

Finally, while what I said above makes sense to me, I do feel that the best argument here has been that lightsabers shouldn't be showing up in Edge of the Empire anyway. They're near-impossible to find for a reason. Unless you have a genuine reason why you want it to be otherwise- just don't have a lightsaber show up in your campaign. You're the GM, and it's your call.

I think it depends entirely on the type of game you are planning. If you are running a game during the Rebellion era then I agree entirely that there should be no Lightsabers, As I have previously mentioned though, I tend to run games not during the movie timeline but much earlier.

E

my lots of cents: if you read the novels that have been published over the years and alot of the lore the guns in starwars arent "laser guns" they are plasma blasters, which is why everyone calls them blasters, also why lightsabers can deflect blaster bolts, if they were lasers they couldnt be deflected and would pass right through the lightsaber blade. and lightsabers themselves are a "frozen blaster" if you read the power of the jedi sourcebook (i dont know where the authors got that concept but im sure they didnt just make it up, alot of what was in the WOTC d20 books was just cannon taken from the movies and novels/comics) why does that matter?

well it means anyone can craft them, they are just a plasma blade. its just too freakin hard to use them since the blade itself has no weight, just the handle, so you can never tell where the blade is and accidentally lop your own head off. why dont jedi accidentally lop themselves while using a lightsaber? back to the novels and lore. (my favorite is "I jedi" Corran picks some crystals for his lightsaber and imbues them with the force after drinking water and eating noodles for a few days and meditating so he is in the propper mindset, funny guy, good book) jedi used focusing crystals in their lightsabers and imbued these crystals with the force, meaning their lightsabler blade was now detectable to them in the force, so they never had to worry about judging where their blade was, they ESPed it.

also in the lore we see some jedi fighting styles, some use strength(form V), some use agility(form iv), some use an opponents strength or agility against them, some use unpredictable illogical movements (juyo variation of form vii, and some are just good at deflecting blaster bolts: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_combat hopefully that is enough for you guys to go on.

also Tantavalist is right, its the jedi that made everyone freak out and play nice or grab every single weapon available and throw it at the jedi and hope it stopped them, not "oh crap some guy with a lightsaber! close the blast doors! I want droidekkas up here at once!" it was " jedi! gass them! send a droid to deal with them! send a platoon of b1s! send droidekkas! close the blast doors!" (remember episode 1 here guys)

If your characters jump through whatever hoops you deem required to actually obtain a light saber and it then proves game breaking for you there are all sorts of ways of depriving them of it again. It could be lost, stolen, destroyed. By a well placed blaster shot, dropped along with a severed limb (cf Empire Strikes Back) or malfunction for some unknown reason.

The old WEG "Lords of the Expanse" source for the Tapani Sector had a group called the "Saber Rakes" they found a crate of old lightsabers and formed a sort of gang. The "Lightfoils" were about 2/3s as powerful as regular lightsaber. Which made them rather useless in combat with the WEG "damage resistance" rules.

This could be a alternative to introduce them to the players without it being game breaking

how does a rarity of 10 factor into the game? Like, when should you present the possibity of obtaining a lightsaber to the players?

Say one of the players chooses the FSE tree. Eventually, he'll want a lightsaber. Any recommendations for WHEN to present him with the opportunity

When he can take it away from the Emperor's Hand who has come to "collect him" for the Emperor.

As an asside, I've looked at the Emperor's Hand entry and it doesn't list a lightsaber or the ability to use it.

As an asside, I've looked at the Emperor's Hand entry and it doesn't list a lightsaber or the ability to use it.

There are many types of Emperor's Hands. Not all use lighbsabers.

Oh yea, he doesn't. In the Beta book he had a lightsaber but it looks like they replaced it with a vibrosword upon release.

Not saying that you couldn't give one to him anyways

Personally I think it would be a shame if anyone who had trained with a (vibro)blade could pick up a lightsaber and fight as good as any Jedi or Sith. In my opinion, it takes special training and a strong connection to the force to wield a lightsaber without hurting yourself.

I know of cause that Grievous did wield his 4 lightsabers pretty good - but I am pretty sure that Dooku spent of lot a time training him and fine-tune his cyborg arms. In addition, the way I see it he was not a threat to a trained jedi in a fair duel. But that’s just my opinion and every Star Wars fan has their thought on the subject J And hey if it fits anyone’s campaign to let smugglers, bounty hunters or mercenaries wield lightsabers then go for it! Personally, as a player and game master, it would not feel “Star Wars” to me.

It does take certain training to be really good at it, but I mean, it is still a sword. You don't touch sword blades most of the time you use them either. It is lighter, but nothing a few practice swings couldn't get you used to. I see no reason why at least a little melee or lightsaber skill should transfer between them. Not ALL of it, mind you. Just half or so. I mean, the concept is generally the same. Stick them with the pointy end.

Even the EotE book says, in the Melee entry, that once you get the general concept of hitting people with sharp or heavy objects, the exact technique translates well. Why should that be 100% exempt from lightsabers? We have, at this point, seen enough precedent to know that using a light saber does not require force sensitivity, though making one does. But, anyone can pick one up and wave it through things effectively enough. Just not as well as someone trained in the force.

Can we all agree that lightsabers are super cool?

Oh absofreaking lutely.

Can we all agree that lightsabers are super cool?

That is why you can't let the players get their grubby hands on them. They will only break them. Better they sit on a shelf in their packaging, never to be taken out and played with.

Can we all agree that lightsabers are super cool?

Lightsabers are super cool until you put a dozen on them on screen at the same time and then somehow they're more boring than blasters.

Can we all agree that lightsabers are super cool?

Oh absofreaking lutely.

Even the EotE book says, in the Melee entry, that once you get the general concept of hitting people with sharp or heavy objects, the exact technique translates well. Why should that be 100% exempt from lightsabers? We have, at this point, seen enough precedent to know that using a light saber does not require force sensitivity, though making one does. But, anyone can pick one up and wave it through things effectively enough. Just not as well as someone trained in the force.

The reason that was done, not allow Melee to be used (even partially) with a lightsaber was probably a balance factor given how powerful a lightsaber already is. Now figure that since you'd be allowing the most potent melee weapon in the game to be used with Melee, that opens up every talent that functions off of a Melee roll, such as Ferocious Strength (adds damage on Brawn and Melee rolls) and Knockdown, just to name a couple. Yes, you could extend the house-rule to exclude those various talents, but you're making more work for yourself by house-ruling your house-rule.

Alternatively, if you want a character's Melee ranks to play a roll in a character's proficiency with a lightsaber, allow them to purchase the Lightsaber skill at the career cost rank, but only up to the character's ranks in Melee. So a character with Melee 2 could buy up to two ranks of Lightsaber at the career skill cost (or 15 XP), but would have to pay 20 XP for that third rank of Lightsaber, since it exceeds their Melee skill.

Honestly, I think that we have to run around in circles with special rules and circumstances because they designed the Lightsaber to be an uber-weapon. WEG started it by making them so dangerous, and we've kept the idea around.

If they toned down the stats to where it was mostly better than a vibroaxe, then the cost, rarity, and illegality would balance it out enough. Then the reason that people don't all use lightsabers would be the obvious, "because it's not worth it."