If you wanted to really inspire fear in the unskilled wielder (and give everyone else a concrete reason not to borrow it), just upgrade 1 difficulty die on every unskilled attack: Despair = you hit yourself. That'll put the kabosh on casual saber usage real quick!

If I were playing with an adult group I would probably do something like this.

If you wanted to really inspire fear in the unskilled wielder (and give everyone else a concrete reason not to borrow it), just upgrade 1 difficulty die on every unskilled attack: Despair = you hit yourself. That'll put the kabosh on casual saber usage real quick!

I think I'm going to do this normally for untrained skill attempts, so long as something "very bad" could happen, it won't require a Destiny Point.

I'd be more inclined to go with Agility over brawn, given a sabers flat damage. Yoda didn't look particularly physically strong, but a better spider-monkey fighter I've never seen.

The rules already say you can pick either Agility or Brawn.

I would employ the use of some kind of education to get the skill. Like a Holocron, a PC could find one and inside it has knowledge to how to propely use a Lightsaber.

I dunno, "finding" an ancient jedi holocron from the trophy room of an Imperial Moff's well-guarded palacial estate sounds more like suicide to me...

The rules already say you can pick either Agility or Brawn.

Correct. My comment was directed more at FoD and what the "default" characteristic would be for trained users, than the types in EotE trying to figure it all out.

I expect in FaD you will still be able to pick at the start. Though maybe certain forms might work better with one or the other.

The rules already say you can pick either Agility or Brawn.

Correct. My comment was directed more at FoD and what the "default" characteristic would be for trained users, than the types in EotE trying to figure it all out.

I actually think the default characteristic for trained user will still be either/or.

It will probably look like: "Lightsaber (Br or Agi)."

It makes sense.

I'd actually like to see a bit of MAD creep into Jedi. It will keep them from being able to just juice their physical stats in Brawn and Agility. Because it gets so boring to constantly link high brawn -or- agility = deadly in combat. Until FaD shows me otherwise, I'm hanging my Lightsaber Skill (if it should ever crop up) on Willpower. A Jedi's use and proficiency with a light saber should be linked more closely with their ties to the force and their Disciplined training, than with their size or innate deftness. Sure that stuff may help, but I don't think being huge helps one reach out with their feelings through a blast visor. Neither would agility.

For anyone that isn't formally trained in the use of the lightsaber, then yeah a raw Brawn or Agility roll works out just fine for now.

I think hanging a darkside force user's Lightsaber Skill on Cunning would also fit thematicly .

how does a rarity of 10 factor into the game? Like, when should you present the possibity of obtaining a lightsaber to the players?

Say one of the players chooses the FSE tree. Eventually, he'll want a lightsaber. Any recommendations for WHEN to present him with the opportunity

Tenrousei answered this, but to be more specific to what I think you are asking: you make checks to find merchants who are selling the items you are looking for. Usually Negotiation checks, although sometimes an appropriate Knowledge check is used instead. A rarity value of 10 is the rarest it gets.

See the chart on page 150.

I guess I was asking for two approaches. 1) how do the rules determine this, which you've answered clearly. But the other approach is more narrative.

Like, what if a player rolls a success in finding a merchant in the beginner campaign, Escape from Mos Shutta? That's not all that interesting because now the PC has a lightsaber right from the start.

The way I would approach it is not even letting a PC make that check until some time later (like, work it into campaign plot). So that question would be, what kind of advice do you (anyone) have for WHEN to introduce the opportunity to obtain a lightsaber.

Through his background one of my players has a busted lightsaber. He was adopted by a Jedi who was later taken by Imperial Soldiers. The only thing left of the fight was his adopted father's lightsaber, which is cut into a 3rd of it's total length--basically it is part of a hilt, a ruined power cell, some inert power insulator, and a little power field comducter...almost all scrap.

He plans to rebuild it and throughout the game and become a Jedi. I don't think he realizes how hard it will be for him to rebuild it. The Empire has made the trade and non-Imperial mining of focus crystals illegal, that; and I'm sure you can't just buy lightsaber schematics at the 7-11 on Naboo.

Then he still has to learn to use it. Which if my players can manage to rescue the Jedi he might be able to.

As far as when? Well, it will be a number of quests in and of itself to acquire schematics, multiple quests for crystals and other parts, lots of time and credits to build it, and then a quest to actually find a Jedi/holocron to allow him to use it properly. Essentially it will be a year or longer before he is able to actually wield a lightsaber.

I opted to stick with "choose Brawn or Agility" when drafting up a Lightsaber skill for my "Ways of the Force" supplement. There's enough background lore regarding the various styles of lightsaber combat to back up using either Characteristic, from the fast/fluid moves of Ataru, Soresu, and Makashi to the raw power moves of Djem So and Shien. Only thing is that once you take your first rank in the Lightsaber skill, whatever Characteristic you chose is locked in.

I got a feeling that FFG is going to handle it in a similar manner when it comes time to write Force & Destiny, if only to maintain a sense of "backwards compatibility" for those folks that have been playing Force-users that managed to secure a lightsaber. Having the official rules suddenly force a character into using Agility when they've been using Brawn for over a year is a bit harsh, particularly if playing a species that heavily favors Brawn (such as Trandoshans and Wookiees). Likewise in forcing the usage of Brawn for a species that either favors Agility (Rodians) or really sucks at Brawn (Twi'leks).

As for when a lightsaber should be available to a PC... that's a tough question, given how powerful these things are in combat. That was a question I had to ponder quite a bit when figuring out where to place my "Build Lightsaber" talent into the Jedi Initiate specialization; too soon and it created a very unbalanced situation, but buried too far into the tree and I'd run into cases where a PC would have to buy all sorts of Lightsaber-related talents but not be able to use them.

Truthfully, I'd make the acquiring of a lightsaber a major plot arc for that PC, something on par with recovering the Holy Grail or defeating a major league villain (such as a Black Sun Vigo, an Imperial Moff, a Hutt Crime Lord, or a potent Dark Side enemy such as a true Dark Jedi or an Imperial Inquisitor), especially if they've not had any formal Jedi training.

While having an old hermit just hand one out worked for Luke (who didn't really use it in ANH aside from a training session; it wasn't until RotJ that it became his primary weapon), players aren't going to be so self-restricting and are more likely to bust out the ever-glowin' beatstick at the first opportunity.

As for game mechanics in regards to Lightsaber Forms, I'd suggest taking a look at DarthGM's "Edge of the Jedi" fan supplement, with the various Forms broken up into three specialization trees: Balanced (Shii-Cho, Niman, Jar'kai), Fast (Ataru, Makashi, Soresu), and Strong (Djem So, Shien, Juyo). They work pretty good for capturing the basic feel of a given Form without adding excessive amounts of crunch in the process.

how does a rarity of 10 factor into the game? Like, when should you present the possibity of obtaining a lightsaber to the players?

Say one of the players chooses the FSE tree. Eventually, he'll want a lightsaber. Any recommendations for WHEN to present him with the opportunity

Tenrousei answered this, but to be more specific to what I think you are asking: you make checks to find merchants who are selling the items you are looking for. Usually Negotiation checks, although sometimes an appropriate Knowledge check is used instead. A rarity value of 10 is the rarest it gets.

See the chart on page 150.

I guess I was asking for two approaches. 1) how do the rules determine this, which you've answered clearly. But the other approach is more narrative.

Like, what if a player rolls a success in finding a merchant in the beginner campaign, Escape from Mos Shutta? That's not all that interesting because now the PC has a lightsaber right from the start.

The way I would approach it is not even letting a PC make that check until some time later (like, work it into campaign plot). So that question would be, what kind of advice do you (anyone) have for WHEN to introduce the opportunity to obtain a lightsaber.

It's highly unlikely that a starting PC would be able to pass a Formidable Difficulty Check (5 difficulty dice). Not to mention you could spend a Destiny Point and upgrade the dice pool.

Having said that it's well within the scope of the rules to determine that a given location simply doesn't have the item one is looking for.

I would introduce a lightsaber as an epic climax to a particular adventure, after the player has advanced their character for a while.

At such a time I would either have a mentor patron NPC give the character the lightsaber, have the PC defeat a Force Sensitive character to gain one, or pay the cost of making one herself.

My problems with the Lightsaber is that there is very little stopping a non-force user using one. I personally think that there should something to prevent it since in the movies I have only seen two non force users utilising one. Han Solo in the Empire Strikes back when he uses the weapon to open up a Tauntaun, the other is General Grevious in the Revenge of the Sith (though my thought is that the least said about him the better).

My suggestion is as follows: A new weapon quality (possibly called Unusual Balance 2): To weild an Unusually Balanced weapon properly, the character needs a force rating equal to the weapons Unusual Balance rating. For each point of force rating the character is deficient they must upgrade the difficulty of all checks using the weapon by one, Should the character roll despair they will hit an ally or important piece of equipment. If there is nothing of that type nearby or they roll 2+ despair they hit themselves and are automatically criticalled.

Also, my thought on Lightsaber skill is that there should be a force power instead, the basic power and the magnitude upgrades would act as skill ranks and control upgrades would add special abilities like defensive, deflection and throw Lightsabers. The version I am working on would have a final cost for the basic and magnitude upgrades (the equivalent of 5 skill ranks) would cost the same amount as purchasing a career skill to 5.

The main advantage of this is that any non-force user will only be able to use the weapon untrained, and the weapon will be very dangerous to anyone who cannot use the force to assist them in weilding of the Lightsaber.

E

I don't think you should bother putting in a mechanic to prevent non-force users from using a Lightsaber. First off, finding even one lightsaber is a huge challenge, and as GM you can easily just say they won't find them. Second, using a lightsaber at all paints a giant target on you, and having looked at the Emperor's Hand's stat block... that target is scary. Third, the reason why people in Star Wars who aren't Jedi don't use Star Wars is that they're pretty rare and having a blaster to shoot someone across the room is usually more effective.

The bits about the lightsaber that should require the Force are the whole deflecting blaster bolts thing... which isn't a base characteristic of the weapon (I believe you can get those effects in the FSE tree and from the Sense power). And getting actual lightsaber skill is also entirely up to you as a GM.

My problems with the Lightsaber is that there is very little stopping a non-force user using one. I personally think that there should something to prevent it since in the movies I have only seen two non force users utilising one. Han Solo in the Empire Strikes back when he uses the weapon to open up a Tauntaun, the other is General Grevious in the Revenge of the Sith (though my thought is that the least said about him the better).

My suggestion is as follows: A new weapon quality (possibly called Unusual Balance 2): To weild an Unusually Balanced weapon properly, the character needs a force rating equal to the weapons Unusual Balance rating. For each point of force rating the character is deficient they must upgrade the difficulty of all checks using the weapon by one, Should the character roll despair they will hit an ally or important piece of equipment. If there is nothing of that type nearby or they roll 2+ despair they hit themselves and are automatically criticalled.

Also, my thought on Lightsaber skill is that there should be a force power instead, the basic power and the magnitude upgrades would act as skill ranks and control upgrades would add special abilities like defensive, deflection and throw Lightsabers. The version I am working on would have a final cost for the basic and magnitude upgrades (the equivalent of 5 skill ranks) would cost the same amount as purchasing a career skill to 5.

The main advantage of this is that any non-force user will only be able to use the weapon untrained, and the weapon will be very dangerous to anyone who cannot use the force to assist them in weilding of the Lightsaber.

E

I would go a different route with this. I believe Lorne suggested it. When an untrained character uses a Lightsaber and rolls a Despair, he strikes himself for full damage. Maybe on Threats he could drop his weapon.

Rather than be punitive to players who want to do things that the GM doesn't want them to do, why not just not introduce any Lightsabers in the first place?

It seems like people are trying to solve a problem that they themselves would have to create.

Rather than be punitive to players who want to do things that the GM doesn't want them to do, why not just not introduce any Lightsabers in the first place?

It seems like people are trying to solve a problem that they themselves would have to create.

I have had situations where the party have dealt with a force user (Jedi/Sith) as part of the story which meant that a Lightsaber will have hit the deck. And in an Old Republic game I ran a Soldier was determined to keep the weapon. Also, it is less to do with the players doing something I don't want them to do and more to do with my thoughts as to what should happen if a non force user gets hold of one and tries to use it.

E

What are your thoughts?

Setting the issue of house rules aside for the moment, I would not make the acquisition of such an elegant weapon anything less than monumentally symbolic in an EotE campaign. The journey of attainment should transform the character from aimless drifter to man with a purpose. Probably would make a nice segue into an Age of Rebellion campaign.

Rather than be punitive to players who want to do things that the GM doesn't want them to do, why not just not introduce any Lightsabers in the first place?

It seems like people are trying to solve a problem that they themselves would have to create.

I don't think the issue is really to prevent people from obtaining it all together, but rather, what penalties (if any) exist to keep the average joe from trying to use it since we all know it's extremely difficult. And also, for force sensitives, I think most people agree that finally obtaining one should be momentous...and not, "oh hey, this guy dropped one" *pick it up and go*.

how does a rarity of 10 factor into the game? Like, when should you present the possibity of obtaining a lightsaber to the players?

Say one of the players chooses the FSE tree. Eventually, he'll want a lightsaber. Any recommendations for WHEN to present him with the opportunity

Tenrousei answered this, but to be more specific to what I think you are asking: you make checks to find merchants who are selling the items you are looking for. Usually Negotiation checks, although sometimes an appropriate Knowledge check is used instead. A rarity value of 10 is the rarest it gets.

See the chart on page 150.

I guess I was asking for two approaches. 1) how do the rules determine this, which you've answered clearly. But the other approach is more narrative.

Like, what if a player rolls a success in finding a merchant in the beginner campaign, Escape from Mos Shutta? That's not all that interesting because now the PC has a lightsaber right from the start.

Well, in the unlikely event that they would actually make that particular roll, threat/despair coud be used in a variety of ways to make a persons life challengeing. That and just because a player found one doesn't mean he'll be able to meet the 10,000 credit price tag, assuming the cost isn't altered. In Mos Shutta it would be at least PPPRR streetwise check to locate. Then negotiation begins. As it is ® they will have to go through blackmarket channels, meaning Teemo or another Hutt on Tatooine, and I'd like to see them give me a good reason as to why someone like Jabba wouldn't turn them over to the Imperials.

Rather than be punitive to players who want to do things that the GM doesn't want them to do, why not just not introduce any Lightsabers in the first place?

It seems like people are trying to solve a problem that they themselves would have to create.

*applauds*

I agree completely. If a GM has a real problem with lightsabers showing up in their game, particularly if there's a high chance that a non-Jedi type will get their hands on it... then simply don't let the players get their hands on one. Frankly, for all the "cool factor" that a lightsaber has going for it, there are far better weapons that won't draw as much attention, don't require highly specialized training, and will already interact with existing talents.

Case in point, the vibro-ax, particularly if one delves into the Marauder specialization. There's also the Force Pike, which has many of the stats as a vibro-ax. To say nothing of the heavy blaster rifle; same raw damage as a lightsaber, far less expensive, can be easily modified to be even more potent, has autofire for serious damage, and won't make you as big of a bullseye as being spotted wielding a lightsaber would.

Or if you really want to get nasty, a disruptor pistol. Range isn't as good as most other ranged weapons, but it's got a low Crit Rating, and any critical hits scored are guaranteed to be nasty no matter how poorly you roll. it's illegal as heck, but won't draw the sort of unwelcome attention a lightsaber would.

Point is, if your non-Jedi types are looking for a nasty weapon to wield in combat, there's a lot better options out there than the lightsaber.

Just give the lightsaber the Dangerous quality. When the weapon is used untrained you upgrade the difficulty once (or twice for Dangerous 2). This way there is a chance of a despair. Once you have training in the lightsaber skill the quality jo longer applies.

Rather than be punitive to players who want to do things that the GM doesn't want them to do, why not just not introduce any Lightsabers in the first place?

It seems like people are trying to solve a problem that they themselves would have to create.

I don't think the issue is really to prevent people from obtaining it all together, but rather, what penalties (if any) exist to keep the average joe from trying to use it since we all know it's extremely difficult. And also, for force sensitives, I think most people agree that finally obtaining one should be momentous...and not, "oh hey, this guy dropped one" *pick it up and go*.

Given that currently, at best, a character could get 7 ability dice in a roll with a lightsaber base, with 5 being the cap that a starting character could muster, which would really focus the character in that area. With no proficency dice, the idea of a triumph is basically moot, unless there is something I'm missing. the only enemy I've seen that has a lightsaber to drop is a Forsaken Jedi... Adversary 2 on top of the ongoing effect for senses which upgrades the difficulty of atacks targeting them by 2 more... Managing to take one of those out would be a very worthy adventure.

If one of my characters wants to use on euntrained, they are welcome to. but a vibro ax would be easier.

I don't think the issue is really to prevent people from obtaining it all together, but rather, what penalties (if any) exist to keep the average joe from trying to use it since we all know it's extremely difficult. And also, for force sensitives, I think most people agree that finally obtaining one should be momentous...and not, "oh hey, this guy dropped one" *pick it up and go*.

Exactly. It is all very well to just say 'well don't put one there if you don't want them to have one' but if the party fight a Jedi/Sith and defeat them as part of the ongoing story, how do you not have one then. If they have just killed someone who had one, or raided somewhere where it could reasonably assumed for one to be there, I can't just say 'No, you don't find one'. My point was not to try to punish people for wanting to have a Lightsaber but to try to come up with a way to show how difficult a weapon it is to use and to demonstrate why it only seems to be used by Force users.

For someone who has force power, my mechanisms would not be a problem at all. You could still have a momentous occasion when they managed to find/make one. Additionally, I am working from the position of someone who tends to run Old Republic games rather than Rebellion era. So the threat of Palpatine/Vader (or the Emperors hands) is completely empty as they don't exist.

By the time of. A New Hope simply owning a light saber does not seem to automatically mark one as a Jedi. Luke wasn't sure what it was when Obi-wan handed him his father's. Han in the cantina commented "You're pretty handy with that saber old man." But didn't immediately leap to the "you're a Jedi" conclusion. In fact when the Imperials start trying to blast the Falcon Han says "You boys must be even hotter than I thought".

I do think though that the obvious advantages of owning a light saber would make. Them pretty well desirable to every two-bit hoodlum, bounty hunter and villainous scum the owner came across. This creating some good reasons not to go waving it around everywhere.

My players full expect to spend YEARS (i.e. core book release cycle) before being able to use lightsabers. They are planning to slowly grow their force powers over a very long time. This works since we play once a month. I could see other groups accelerating that play but I want to see lots of gameplay without them before everyone has one. It should be a PATH, not a sudden "I rolled good, gimme lightsaber, PEW PEW PEW!!!"