May Strike from outside the engagement issue

By Hida77, in Star Wars: The Card Game - Rules Questions

Posted at
Hey all, hit some interesting issues with the new "May Strike as if it were in the engagement" units that came in EoD.


So Player A has a unit attacking alone, and a unit that may strike from outside the engagement at home. Player B is defending with a unit capable of killing Player A's attacking unit in one strike (regardless of winning edge or not)..


Scenario 1:

Player B Wins the Edge Battle. Player B's First strike kills the only attacker. There are now no units remaining in the engagement (participating) that can strike. By the rulebook (see below), this means the engagement ends, so the Unit that has the "May strike from outside..." clause can actually NOT strike at all because he is not participating. Is this correct?


Scenario 2:

Player A wins the Edge Battle, but chooses to strike with the solo attacker first. Regardless of whether player B's unit is alive and strikes or dies, the engagement will now end immediately afterward, again denying the "can strike outside" unit's ability to strike for the same reason as scenario 1. Correct?


Scenario 3

Player B's Unit is a unit with a tactics icon and he wins the edge. He places the focus token on the lone attacker. The engagement now ends, the unit can again, not strike. Correct?


Relevant Rulebook and unit wordings:

Rulebook Page 20:

"If all of a player’s participating ready units are exhausted, but his opponent’s are not, the opponent continues to focus and strike with his ready participating units, resolving one strike at a time, until all participating units are exhausted."


Rulebook Page 23:

"After all units participating in the engagement are exhausted (either by striking, by receiving a focus token during a <tactic> icon resolution, or by other card effects), the resolve strikes step is over."


Sampe of wording from a unit with the ability (Cloud City Wing Guard):

"This unit may strike in combat even if it is not participating in the engagement."


Conclusion:

If these are all correct, it would mean the only way you can strike with the units that "May stike outside..." is if there are units in the battle who can still strike. This is EXTREMELY important to note, because units like the Emperor can completely deny the use of said units. The effects of the Nar Shadaa objective could also preclude the their use as well.

Edited by Hida77
Posted at

Scenario 1: That is correct.

Scenario 2: This is also correct.

Scenario 3: Also correct.

Yes, there must be a unit in the engagement that can strike in order for you to strike with a unit out of the engagement.

Posted at

From PBrennan on cardgameDB, confirmed with FFG:

i have confirmed that the rules flowchart is the accurate representation, which is important for effects like Cloud City Wing Guard and Chewbacca's Bowcaster. Namely:
When resolving strikes/ending an engagement, these steps apply:
1) (Framework) The player who won the edge battle resolves 1 strike, if able.
2) Player Action window
3) (Framework) The player who lost the edge battle resolves 1 strike, if able.
4) Player Action window
5) Check to: "Repeat if any participating units are still ready."
-If yes, return to step 1, above
-if no, proceed to step 6, below
6) (Framework) Check for surviving units and reward unopposed
7) (Framework) Engagement ends
So, regarding CCWG for instance, you would have to use it to strike any time it is your turn to do so during the steps labeled "1" or "3" above. If you get to step 5 and all the participating units are exhausted, you have no choice but to proceed to step 6, and lose out on the opportunity to strike with CCWG, or with Chewbacca with Chewbacca's Bowcaster attached for that matter.
Edited by bobafett012
Posted at

Yes, there must be a unit in the engagement that can strike in order for you to strike with a unit out of the engagement.

this is a discussion on cardgame DB:

So since FFG made that ruling, it will limit how this card can be played. It will also make him UNABLE to strike using his ability if you did not choose defenders, or your opponent is able to remove any chosen defenders from battle. Couple examples:
1. Your opponent declares one attacker. You declare no defenders. Your opponent automatically wins the edge and so can strike first with his one unit. Now, since all participating units are not ready, you skip to step 6.
2. Your opponent declares one attacker, You declare one defender. He plays heat of battle into the edge stack. You win the edge, but he uses his heat of battle to kill your one defender. Since you won the edge, you could still strike with CCWG, using his edge icons of course.
quoted from PBrennan:
Not quite. Per this flowchart, in situation #1, attacker strikes in step 1, then CCWG (with Echo Caverns support say to get an icon) or Chewbacca with Bowcaster may strike in step 3. Then combat stops.
Edited by bobafett012
Posted at

Yes, there must be a unit in the engagement that can strike in order for you to strike with a unit out of the engagement.

Quoted from Hundreds on cardgame DB:

So since FFG made that ruling, it will limit how this card can be played. It will also make him UNABLE to strike using his ability if you did not choose defenders, or your opponent is able to remove any chosen defenders from battle. Couple examples:
1. Your opponent declares one attacker. You declare no defenders. Your opponent automatically wins the edge and so can strike first with his one unit. Now, since all participating units are not ready, you skip to step 6.
2. Your opponent declares one attacker, You declare one defender. He plays heat of battle into the edge stack. You win the edge, but he uses his heat of battle to kill your one defender. Since you won the edge, you could still strike with CCWG, using his edge icons of course.
Quoted by PBrennan:
Not quite. Per this flowchart, in situation #1, attacker strikes in step 1, then CCWG (with Echo Caverns support say to get an icon) or Chewbacca with Bowcaster may strike in step 3. Then combat stops.
Edited by bobafett012
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Yes, number 2 should work that way because you won the edge and you should get to strike first with the unit that is not in the engagement.

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That is what I suspected. Makes the Wing Guard extremely overcosted IMO. 1 hp and meh icons that are both edge only, with an ability your opponent can basically dictate when you have to use it means that 3 cost looks even worse than it did before. Too bad, really liked the idea. Maybe they will put it on more units at a lower cost in the future...

Posted at

Yes, number 2 should work that way because you won the edge and you should get to strike first with the unit that is not in the engagement.

according to PBrennan and the flowchart, in both situations your CCWG could strike, or your chewbacca.

i think this whole situation is a bit confusing, i would like to see FFG clear it up a bit.

Edited by bobafett012
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In order for your unit to strike out of combat there has to be a ready unit on your side or your opponents side and it has to be your turn to strike.

If you win edge and your defender dies you still get to strike first becuase the rules say so.

If your opponent won the edge and strikes then you dont get to because there isnt a ready unit in the engagement so you move onto step 6.

If your opponent won the edge but had 2 units participating and you no longer have any units then you could strike with your unit.

The bottom line is that you only get to strike in any particular situation if there is a ready participating unit and its your turn to strike.

Posted at

In order for your unit to strike out of combat there has to be a ready unit on your side or your opponents side and it has to be your turn to strike.

If your opponent won the edge and strikes then you dont get to because there isnt a ready unit in the engagement so you move onto step 6.

the reason being is because if your opponent won the edge and you had declared no defenders you still go through steps 1-3 on the flowchart, so after your opponent strikes with his lone attacker, an action window happens, then it would be your turn to strike with a unit, if able. You don't check to see if there is any participating units that are ready until step 5, and you don't skip steps 3 and 4 even if there is no defenders declared.

this is the exact scenario that was mentioned above on cardgamedb under CCWG, to which I quoted the answer to. You can indeed strike with your CCWg or Chewbacca without having a unit participating in the engagement.

if say the attacker had 1 unit, and you, the defender, had one unit, and a CCWG NOT in the engagement, and you lost the edge, the attacker would get his strike, now if you choose to strike with your participation, ready unit, then your CCWG would not get to strike because you would precede to step 5 after completing your attack and action window, and the check for ready, participating units would fail, thereby stopping your CCWG from striking. in that same situation, if after your opponent struck, you then chose to strike with your CCWG, when you proceeded to step 5 the check would pass, because you still had a unit participating, and ready in the engagement.

here is a link to the discussion on cardgameDB:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/starwars/star-wars-card-spoilers/_/edge-of-darkness/cloud-city-wing-guard-edge-of-darkness-73-3?st=0#comment_18346

Edited by bobafett012
Posted at

Face palm. Yeah I screwed that up.

Step 3 comes up and you will get to strike with the out of combat unit.

Then there is the action window.

Then you get to step 5 and there are no more ready units then you dont get to strike with another one.

Posted at

Would the CCWG or Chewbacca with Bowcaster be able to strike from outside the engagement if they already have a focus token on them? Ex:

A) Attacks with Han Solo.

B) Defends with Darth Vader.

A) Wants to strike with CCWG who is already focused from a previous engagement.

???

Posted at

Would the CCWG or Chewbacca with Bowcaster be able to strike from outside the engagement if they already have a focus token on them? Ex:

A) Attacks with Han Solo.

B) Defends with Darth Vader.

A) Wants to strike with CCWG who is already focused from a previous engagement.

???

nope. a unit cannot focus to strike if it is already exhausted (has a focus on it). Even with an ability like that

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I think we're definitely needing a FAQ/rule update on this one. Even after reading the official response, it's still unclear.

Edited by Sephirex
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if you follow the flowchart, it will work fine every time, you just have to follow it exactly.

What situation are you unclear about? give some examples and maybe we can clear them up for you.

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I just read through the original post on cardgameDB and it's much less confusing on there. I take back my original statement.

It's very clear now.

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Nevermind, I still got one question.

Opponent attacks with one unit, and I've got 2 wing guards.

We go through steps 1-5, during which he strikes with his one unit, and I strike with wing guard.

Technically all "participating" units in the battle are exhausted at this point so it should move to step 6? Does the engagement end or can I still focus my remaining wing guard?

Edited by Sephirex
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the second WG could not strike because when you get to step 5 and check for ready units, there aren't any ready, participating units left to strike.

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Excellent. Thank you!

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It sure looks like the CCWG is not as good as it initially looked. I am also not impressed with Chewie's pod now that this ability is not as useful.

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It sure looks like the CCWG is not as good as it initially looked. I am also not impressed with Chewie's pod now that this ability is not as useful.

I just last night used Chewbacca with his bowcaster, Millenium Falcon, and a Cloud City Operative to rock someone's world and destroy 3 objectives in a single turn. (hint, the CCO wasn't in play till after the Falcon and Chewie struck the first time)

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It sure looks like the CCWG is not as good as it initially looked. I am also not impressed with Chewie's pod now that this ability is not as useful.

how isn't chewys ability as useful?

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It sure looks like the CCWG is not as good as it initially looked. I am also not impressed with Chewie's pod now that this ability is not as useful.

how isn't chewys ability as useful?

I know, right? Chewie with his bowcaster is awesome.

Posted at

It sure looks like the CCWG is not as good as it initially looked. I am also not impressed with Chewie's pod now that this ability is not as useful.

how isn't chewys ability as useful?

I know, right? Chewie with his bowcaster is awesome.

I find him to be incredible with or without his bowcaster. specially if you have questionable contacts and 1 other protector out, he is really tough to kill and can essentially attack, and then defend with his reaction on your opponent turn.

Posted at

ok so I just want to make sure I understand this correctly:

I declare a 1 unit for an attack and my opponent declares one unit for the defense.

step 1: the winner of the edge battle strikes first. his unit kills my unit (I now have no units ready in the

engagement area)

Step2: action window

step 3: the loser strikes with one of his units (if able) I can now focus Chewy (with his crossbow) to strike against the objective and the defending unit.

step 4: action window

step 5: check play area for ready units and continue to alternate strikes until all units are exhausted

Basically I can focus Chewy to strike during step 3 even if I no longer have a unit ready in the engagement. It is only after step 4 that I, or my opponent, has to have a unit ready in the engagement to focus Chewy to strike.

Is that correct?

Edited by Darth Zilla