The Smuggling Compartments attachment converts 25 Encumbrance from a ships Encumbrance Capacity (EC) into hidden storage. A YT-1300 with this attachment would have an EC of 140 (+25). That's pretty clear,

However, the Modification Options allow for two additional storage mods which add 25 Encumbrance. Do these just convert more of the ship's base EC to hidden storage, or do they allow the ship to increase it's overall EC?

As a house rule, I'm strongly considering just removing the line "This still counts as part of the total encumbrance threshold of the ship." from the description. This would mean that a YT-1300 with Smuggling Compartments would have and EC of 165 (+25) or potentially 165 (+75) with both Modification Options.

This change prevents the obvious oddity that any customs official would quickly realize that a ship with smuggling compartments has an unusually low EC and that likely means that there are smuggling compartments aboard. The description for the Smuggling Compartments doesn't indicate that they are taking up space usually used for cargo - which, as I said, would make them pretty obvious - so this makes more sense to me. Any opinions?

The EC of the ship is what it is as the ship is designed to carry only so much. Unless you make changes such as adding cargo pods or removing other sections you are not adding the ability to carry more cargo. All you're doing is creating hidden places to carry cargo. As with the officials that weigh trucks at those stations on the highway, they will be more curious if you are overweight, as the officials will be more aware of the encumberance limits of the ships, but don't show any reason way (external storage pods, retrofitting to carry more). So your change would probably be more likely to get them into trouble.

The EC of the ship is what it is as the ship is designed to carry only so much. Unless you make changes such as adding cargo pods or removing other sections you are not adding the ability to carry more cargo. All you're doing is creating hidden places to carry cargo. As with the officials that weigh trucks at those stations on the highway, they will be more curious if you are overweight, as the officials will be more aware of the encumberance limits of the ships, but don't show any reason way (external storage pods, retrofitting to carry more). So your change would probably be more likely to get them into trouble.

If EC is space then adding the Smuggling Compartments certainly does increase it. If I hide something in a hollowed out door on my car, it doesn't alter how much I can put into the back seat and trunk. If EC is weight/tonnage then smuggling compartments would not add to overall EC, but it's been discussed that this is not the intent of EotE's EC. Does the tech allow for reading the mass of a target with sensors, or are customs inspections more of a 'come aboard and look around' kind of thing?

EC with starships seems pretty broken in general. As your pointing out, it's NOT supposed to only address weight, but also space. This doesn't excuse a YT-1300 only being able to carry one crate of blaster rifles.

If you're not going to create more sensible EC limits as a house rule, I would recommend a mixed approach. Say smuggling compartments add 15 EC to the total EC, and convert 10 EC from existing EC. So the total EC would be 180, of which 25 is hidden.

Plus, let's not forget that you are using up space that could be customized with stronger engines or additional guns for secret storage. I think that could possibly add more encumbrance to it too. I'd say do what you feel is right as a GM.

EC with starships seems pretty broken in general. As your pointing out, it's NOT supposed to only address weight, but also space. This doesn't excuse a YT-1300 only being able to carry one crate of blaster rifles.

Honest question: where are you finding encumbrance values for a crate of blaster rifles?

The only references I can find to encumbrance for cargo crates are the spice containers and in the initial description of encumbrance on page 152.

Keep in mind, at a personal level, a backpack and utility belt increases a person's encumbrance threshold. Crates, for example, are very likely to do the same thing on a starship scale. A blaster rifle might have an encumbrance of 4, which means that a Yt-1300 could only carry 42 of them loose before the hull is full. In crates it'd be different.

I'm also thinking that starship encumbrance is different from personal encumbrance... Like starship damage is a multiple of 10, I think starship encumbrance is also multiplied by 10... 420 blaster rifles sounds about right as a full cargo for a YT-1300...

Keep in mind, at a personal level, a backpack and utility belt increases a person's encumbrance threshold. Crates, for example, are very likely to do the same thing on a starship scale. A blaster rifle might have an encumbrance of 4, which means that a Yt-1300 could only carry 42 of them loose before the hull is full. In crates it'd be different.

I'm also thinking that starship encumbrance is different from personal encumbrance... Like starship damage is a multiple of 10, I think starship encumbrance is also multiplied by 10... 420 blaster rifles sounds about right as a full cargo for a YT-1300...

YT-1300 carries more than YT-2400. We have a ratio, but beyond that we don't really know what the hell to do with the numbers.

EC with starships seems pretty broken in general. As your pointing out, it's NOT supposed to only address weight, but also space. This doesn't excuse a YT-1300 only being able to carry one crate of blaster rifles.

Honest question: where are you finding encumbrance values for a crate of blaster rifles?

Don't have a reference, but a crate would probably be anywhere from 20-50 BRs, and 42 is all the YT-1300 could carry. If you apply a crate multiplier for careful packaging (say, 25%), it could carry 165 blaster rifles. Still a sad, sad number.

This is further complicated in that, in other instances, EC is clearly being used primarily as a weight indicator. The reason (speculation) the Lambda shuttle has 200 EC is because of it's high passenger count. The reason the Y-wing can carry 1/16th of the YT-1300 is because of the pilot taking up 6-8 EC of that.

Keep in mind, at a personal level, a backpack and utility belt increases a person's encumbrance threshold. Crates, for example, are very likely to do the same thing on a starship scale. A blaster rifle might have an encumbrance of 4, which means that a Yt-1300 could only carry 42 of them loose before the hull is full. In crates it'd be different.

I'm also thinking that starship encumbrance is different from personal encumbrance... Like starship damage is a multiple of 10, I think starship encumbrance is also multiplied by 10... 420 blaster rifles sounds about right as a full cargo for a YT-1300...

The multiplying by 10 was my first thought as well- but it doesn't make any sense for starfighters- a Y-wing doesn't have the space for 25 blaster rifles.

Well okay, clearly the Y-wing's EC isn't multiplied by 10- but where do you draw the line? The Firespray? A Lamda Shuttle? What about the Skipray Blastboat?

So, IOW, the current book doesn't have enough on what a starship's encumbrance capacity actually means or how it's used for it to mean anything other than as a stat for comparing the EC value of one ship to another.

YT-1300 carries more than YT-2400. We have a ratio, but beyond that we don't really know what the hell to do with the numbers.

Yup.

Keep in mind, at a personal level, a backpack and utility belt increases a person's encumbrance threshold. Crates, for example, are very likely to do the same thing on a starship scale. A blaster rifle might have an encumbrance of 4, which means that a Yt-1300 could only carry 42 of them loose before the hull is full. In crates it'd be different.

I'm also thinking that starship encumbrance is different from personal encumbrance... Like starship damage is a multiple of 10, I think starship encumbrance is also multiplied by 10... 420 blaster rifles sounds about right as a full cargo for a YT-1300...

The multiplying by 10 was my first thought as well- but it doesn't make any sense for starfighters- a Y-wing doesn't have the space for 25 blaster rifles.

Well okay, clearly the Y-wing's EC isn't multiplied by 10- but where do you draw the line? The Firespray? A Lamda Shuttle? What about the Skipray Blastboat?

I like the idea of increasing it by 10 as house rules, at least for the YT-1300. My PC's just found a bunch of crates of blasters and when I looked up the EC for their ship I also found out they would only be able to carry 40-odd blasters. Given the size of the millenium falcon that we see in the films this seems silly to me, obviously it can fit much more than 1 crate of blasters.

I would say increase it by 10 but only for freighters - starfighters and other ships whose priority is combat, you could say the extra cargo space is filled with equipment that would power all the shields/weapons/engines on a smaller ship.

For what it's worth, a cargo crate is mentioned as 5-6 EC.

I didn't catch that reference Mandrake, you remember where you saw it?

Aye. Pg 152, paragraph 5.

Couple of paragraphs after it goes on to say a person has an encumbrance of 5+Brawn. Thus a 25EC smuggling compartment can hold 4-5 crates or 3 or so people. That seems reasonable to me.

In the Q&A episode from the Order66 podcast, Sam Stewart mentioned something about halving an items encumbrance value if stored neatly in boxes/crates. My own take on it was similar, although a bit more generous I think (see back of the free-traders catalogue for detail; link in sig.)

I'd think that cargo/shipping crates comes in varying sizes, standardised of course, but you'd have small, medium and large.

It's must my 2 cents, but here it goes.

RAW, the extra 25 enc mods would convert 25 enc of your cargo space to smuggling compartments.

Does the tech allow for reading the mass of a target with sensors, or are customs inspections more of a 'come aboard and look around' kind of thing?

If you will recall when the Falcon was captured by the Death Star, regular stormies went aboard to search for people. when they left, the party came out of the smuggling compartments. Then a sensor crew came aboard to scan "every inch of this ship" they were ambushed, then the stormies, and the party received disguises.

Mechanically, I think the ambiguity of EC is one of the few flaws i see with the system. Narratively, why worry about it?

If the PC's need to move something, it will need to fit in their ship or, as a part of the plot, they will need to "acquire" a ship that will. But only if it is necessary for the plot!!!! If they are just looking to move some carogo, work with them to find out how much money they want to make on any given run. If it's too high, then say no. if it is reasonable, come to an agreement on if the items are black market or illegal where they are going, or if it is a white market deal, *shrug* let them make some case. The Negotiation rolls on both sides (picking up/dropping off and the actual sales at both events) will allow them to make some cash for that new upgrade or pay off some debt, assuming they aren't actively involved in a plot somewhere.

If you want to creat a situation where they are forced to choose what items to carry and what not to, then give them some sweet cargo, and add in the damsel in distress. Cargo or person/mcguffin can be interesting.

As for a Y-wing and 25 blaster rifles, I could see it in a two-seater Y-wing if the blasters were packed where the second crewman would usually sit. It would be a very tight fit though. Depending on what functions besides gunner the second crewman has it also might seriously downgrade the Y-wing's capabilities.

I do agree that the cargo capacity of everybody's favorite freighter seems low. If it will only haul as much as a station wagon is it really worth using it as a freighter at all?

I do agree that the cargo capacity of everybody's favorite freighter seems low. If it will only haul as much as a station wagon is it really worth using it as a freighter at all?

The light freighter in star wars is really not much more than a FTL-capable FedEx/UPS truck with a big sleeper cab attached. At best, it's a big tour bus with passengers and a bit of cargo on the other. These ships are not terribly profitable with most cargos (leave that for the big ships run by big organizations), so your best bet is carrying private packages and passengers to out of the way places. These tend to be the kinds of runs with all kinds of complications to make matters more interesting too.

YT-1300 is supposed to be able to carry 25-100 tons of cargo, depending on config. That's a little more than a UPS truck,

YT-1300 is supposed to be able to carry 25-100 tons of cargo, depending on config. That's a little more than a UPS truck,

A single railroad boxcar can transport roughly 100 tons and a standard trailer truck box is about 20-25 tons. This is going strictly by weight not volume (in which the boxcar has roughly twice the volume of the trailer truck box). Regardless, a single light freighter is certainly not supplying whole colonies or even large starships by itself. If light freighters are used in such a role it's a part of a larger system, and that's not commonly a role PCs fit into. As independents, I recommend sticking to private packages and passengers.

A single railroad boxcar can transport roughly 100 tons and a standard trailer truck box is about 20-25 tons. This is going strictly by weight not volume (in which the boxcar has roughly twice the volume of the trailer truck box). Regardless, a single light freighter is certainly not supplying whole colonies or even large starships by itself. If light freighters are used in such a role it's a part of a larger system, and that's not commonly a role PCs fit into. As independents, I recommend sticking to private packages and passengers.

And I think that is the crux of this issue. The YT-1300 should be able to carry around 10,000 properly packed Blaster Rifles (assuming cargo cap of 50 metric tons and a Rifle weight of 4.5k).

Not "40-odd". Vehicle encumbrance is an area FFG really dropped the ball.