Hey guy I just got the rule book yesterday I have to say I'm enjoying what I've been reading. But I can not find any rule on how a player on foot (or in the the back of a speeder) could do damage to a vehicle with his blaster? What I was thinking about is putting them against a walker, but I could not find any rules on how they could do damage with there blasters. Have I missed a page in the book with the rules on how to do is if so could someone put up here the page number for me or if some has a house rule on how to do it?

You can go one scale to another. Using Ship scale the person needs to do ten points for every one to the ship. Using people scale times all of their armor by ten.

Pg 224 has rules on it.

the chapter on silhouettes will help you, its pg 224 i think. a hand held blaster fire from a pc(silhouette value of 0) would have to deal 20 points of damage to inflict One point of damage to a walker(silhouette value of 2) and if the walker returned fire it would deal its damage times 20 to the pc due to the difference in silhouette

By the book, vehicle soak is 10x as effective as personal soak, so pitting them against an AT-ST with blasters would probably be considered rude. However, there's no reason to think that civilian vehicles are as thick skinned as military ones. So you could either make some vehicle scale weapons handy (an E-WEB or a missile tube loaded with proton warheads), or pit them against some sort of civilian walker (with lots of personal soak, maybe).

lol mando beat me to it!

Ty for the info guys

Yeah, conventional blasters probably won't be able to hurt a vehicle unless you can get Pierce 10+/Breach 1+ on it, or if the armor value is low, or if you roll absurdly well.

The only weapons listed that could reliably damage a vehicle without upgrades is the Missile Tube, Thermal Detonator, and Lightsaber, since they all have breach and automatically deal damage to them if they hit. That could allow you to inflict a critical injury if you rolled well enough, which is where those weapons actually shine against vehicles. They probably wouldn't ever actually be able to drop the thresholds of the vehicle low enough to destroy it without just compounding with crits.

Also, remember that starship scale weapons deal 10x damage to people scale things. So, that blaster does 4 or 5 damage to vehicles, but 40 or 50 damage to people (which will almost unanimously knock them on their butts.)

Personal scale weapons of the standard issue can take down air taxis and things that have a big doughnut (0) for armor rating, but for anything beefier than that ... get bigger weapons. Ones that have plush cushiony nerf leather bucket seats, AC and Flight of the Valkyries on autoloop.

Also a good idea is to use some of the larger personal scale weapons on smaller vehicles. So if the local guards are driving around in a landspeeder, give them a mounted repeating blaster rather than a quad lazer cannon.

the chapter on silhouettes will help you, its pg 224 i think. a hand held blaster fire from a pc(silhouette value of 0) would have to deal 20 points of damage to inflict One point of damage to a walker(silhouette value of 2) and if the walker returned fire it would deal its damage times 20 to the pc due to the difference in silhouette

I don't see a difference in silhouette, just that 1 point of hull trauma=10 points of wounds. Theoretically a blaster rifle could inflict damage on a YT-1300 for example, but because of the transport's armour of 4, the rifle would have to deal 40 points of damage to get past the armour, and then at least another 10 to even do one point of Hull Trauma. Since the likelyhood of this is infinitely small, it's not a good example... But a Triumph result might inflict a minor coolant leak that could slow down an escaping craft, or leave a telltale trail that could later be tracked...

More likely personal vs. vehicle will be in the realm of speeders and swoops, where personal weapons are far more likely to be able to do damage to a given vehicle. Yet even with this a 74-Z Speeder bike with 2HT has the equivalent of 20 wounds and 0 soak... BUT the attacker must do at least 10 points of damage on a hit to harm it... But if they do, they do 1 point of Hull Trauma.

Little Thread Necromancy here:

I haven't found an anwser unfortunately though the topic's title is perfect for me.

In Beyond the Rim, on the Wheel there's a chase scene, where the opponents use a gravsled (speed 1). The rules are not stating whether or not the PCs can have comparable speed with vehicles. I mean according to the fluff, the sled can go up to 30 km/h. Going speed 2 is still comparable (say it someone on a bantha)? Or I just draw the line somewhere thematically. I mean I can imagine situations (crowded city) where you can be faster on foot with shortcuts, etc. But then again, how do I make the competitive check between a vehicle and someone on foot? The mechanics are different, and it doesn't seem clear to me.

Well, there is a chance to crit a vehicle dead. You just need to do damage over the Armor Value, not a full Hull Trauma Damage.
i.e.: The Vehicle has Armor of 1 (10 Soak), and you do 11 Damage, that is enough to critical hit, you don´ t need to do 20 Damage.

Size difference can matter, sil1 vs sil3 makes the attack from sil1 to sil 3 easier.

AT-ST has an armor of 3? ouch!

Vehicles vs. characters will often result in a TPK for the side without vehicles. This is because all vehicles should be mounting planetary scale weaponry, and the least of it can out-range anything on personal scale while still having the same Difficulty to hit (stupid, stupid rules) and any hit will do 40+ damage (auto-blaster with 1 success). Mounting personal scale weapons on vehicles is stupid as they get all of the negative and none of the benefits plus the auto-blaster is very inexpensive and low rarity along with being non-Restricted (stupid, stupid rules). So basically, the interface of personal scale and planetary scale is one of the biggest weaknesses of this game and it doesn't take any effort to tear through the illusion that the rules are balanced.

As an example, a Hutt's personal sled has a concealed auto-blaster as a part of its standard loadout. Hutt Heavy sounds silly, but sure, why not?

I think you misunderstood me. I don't want to fight, I want a chase. But vehicle chases and foot chases use different mechanics thus i don't know how to resolve the vehicle - foot chase in Beyond the Rim first Chapter on the Wheel.

59 minutes ago, Rimsen said:

I think you misunderstood me. I don't want to fight, I want a chase. But vehicle chases and foot chases use different mechanics thus i don't know how to resolve the vehicle - foot chase in Beyond the Rim first Chapter on the Wheel.

Assume the vehicle is going to outpace the people on foot very quickly so there's no point rolling/checking for speed or worrying how they compare. Instead have the players roll for what they do to avoid the vehicle being able to exploit that foregone conclusion.

You're right in your previous post that those on foot can try other things, so instead of having them roll against the chasing vehicle's speed/piloting, have them roll Stealth to merge into the crowd in the busy market street, or Streetwise to know a shortcut down a side alley that's too narrow for the speeder to follow, or Athletics to knock down a stack of crates as they rush by so they topple over and block the road behind them, etc.

If they fail everything they try, the pursuers catch up. If they succeed well, they lose them. And as usual, advantage/threat are used to qualify the level of success/failure (maybe they succeed in knocking over that pile of crates but generate enough Threat that the pursuers simply hop out of the speeder and continue the pursuit by foot, and so on)

8 hours ago, Rimsen said:

But  then again, how do I make the competitive check between a vehicle and someone on foot? The mechanics are different, and it doesn't seem clear to me.

It's essentially the same, the on-foot characters just make a check like Athletics or Coordination instead of a Piloting check. Difficulty (if any) would be set based on the terrain and conditions.

Otherwise you're right, narratively the vehicle is working around in the "street" while the on-foot guys are cutting through crowds, alleyways and buildings like a scene from "The Transporter" films.

Remember with speed you're dealing with something like Colbert's "truthiness." It's less about actual kph and more about how fast something feel like it's going compared to something else.

7 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

Remember with speed you're dealing with something like Colbert's "truthiness." It's less about actual kph and more about how fast something feel like it's going compared to something else.

That's the thing. "On foot" doesn't have a speed value, so I can't compare them using this abstract measurement. And the Beyond the Rim book doesn't explain it. Anyone run that encounter could enlighten me how they did it?

3 hours ago, Rimsen said:

That's the thing. "On foot" doesn't have a speed value, so I can't compare them using this abstract measurement. And the Beyond the Rim book doesn't explain it. Anyone run that encounter could enlighten me how they did it?

You pick the scale of the encounter (in this case probably personal) and run the Chase per the Chase rules in the core book. The players count as Speed X, and the gravsled as Speed X+1. As you noticed, the players don't have a speed on fort, it's just "not zero" so the gravsled at Speed 1 is simply one higher. This is where I was going with "Speediness" the exact kph of the sled is irrelevant, just that it's going faster than the players on foot by 1.

From there you just paint it as a Chase in busy downtown traffic.

So it'd go like this:

Top of the turn, player on foot and gravsled roll a competitive check as they negotiate a busy intersection.

GM says the player needs an Easy Coordination check +1 Setback to maneuver through the crowd and traffic. The Gravsled is going Speed 1, and is Sil 2, so it's Piloting vs 1 Red + 2 Setback.

Let's say the player wins the check. "You shove your way through the other pedestrians and are thinking you may lose the sled, but then a huge cargo hauler steps into the intersection forcing the sled to brake and swerve, giving you a moment to catch up." The player is now at Short Range to the sled. You run the rest of the turn as normal, except of course for no movement that would affect the distance between Chase participants. Top of the next turn run another competitive check and so on...

3 hours ago, Rimsen said:

That's the thing. "On foot" doesn't have a speed value, so I can't compare them using this abstract measurement. And the Beyond the Rim book doesn't explain it. Anyone run that encounter could enlighten me how they did it?

The key mathematical rules are:

Per the 'Starships and Personal Scale' sidebar in the core rulebook:

The important thing to remember is that all of the personal range bands exist within the close range band for planetary scale.

Per the Vehicle Drive / Fly maneuver:

Speed 1: One starship maneuver to move within close range of a target or object, or two starship maneuvers to move from close to short range or from short range to close range.

Per the Character Move maneuver:

Performing this maneuver allows a character to move between short and medium range relative to another person or object. This also allows characters to move between medium and long range by performing two maneuvers, or between long and extreme range by performing two maneuvers. When covering long distances, multiple maneuvers do not have to be performed on the same turn, but the character is not considered to be in the new range increment until all required maneuvers have been performed.

So, a speed 1 vehicle will take two maneuvers to go from Close to Short Planetary Range

Short Planetary Range is effectively Extreme+ Character Range

Catching up with a vehicle at extreme range will take:

• 2 Maneuvers to get from Extreme to Long
• 2 Maneuvers to get from Long to Medium
• 1 Maneuver to get from Medium to Short range
• 1 Maneuver to get from Short to Engaged

Basically, catching up with or running away from a speed 1 vehicle is not something you can do on foot without a lot of friendly terrain...

4 hours ago, Ominovin said:

The key mathematical rules are:

Per the 'Starships and Personal Scale' sidebar in the core rulebook:

The important thing to remember is that all of the personal range bands exist within the close range band for planetary scale.

Per the Vehicle Drive / Fly maneuver:

Speed 1: One starship maneuver to move within close range of a target or object, or two starship maneuvers to move from close to short range or from short range to close range.

Per the Character Move maneuver:

Performing this maneuver allows a character to move between short and medium range relative to another person or object. This also allows characters to move between medium and long range by performing two maneuvers, or between long and extreme range by performing two maneuvers. When covering long distances, multiple maneuvers do not have to be performed on the same turn, but the character is not considered to be in the new range increment until all required maneuvers have been performed.

So, a speed 1 vehicle will take two maneuvers to go from Close to Short Planetary Range

Short Planetary Range is effectively Extreme+ Character Range

Catching up with a vehicle at extreme range will take:

• 2 Maneuvers to get from Extreme to Long
• 2 Maneuvers to get from Long to Medium
• 1 Maneuver to get from Medium to Short range
• 1 Maneuver to get from Short to Engaged

Basically, catching up with or running away from a speed 1 vehicle is not something you can do on foot without a lot of friendly terrain...

And all of that means almost nothing when chase mechanics are in play.

13 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

And all of that means almost nothing when chase mechanics are in play.

If speed is a factor in the check, the vehicle wins.

To paraphrase Red Dwarf, it's like playing 'cat and mouse': The only way to win is to not be the mouse (unless you believe those lying cartoons). If you are the mouse, your best option is to keep to areas the cat can't get to...

If you really want to use the Chase rules, the only real change is if the vehicle wins the check, it pretty much gets as close to the PCs as it wants to (remember, 1 'drive' maneuver will get a speed 1 vehicle the same distance as 4 character 'move' maneuvers).

31 minutes ago, Ominovin said:

If you really want to use the Chase rules, the only real change is if the vehicle wins the check, it pretty much gets as close to the PCs as it wants to (remember, 1 'drive' maneuver will get a speed 1 vehicle the same distance as 4 character 'move' maneuvers).

That isn't how the Chase mechanics work. Chase is a separate movement system from fly/drive. In fact you can't make a fly/drive maneuver at all during a Chase, at least not to change the distance between Chase participants.

You're looking at basic movement options. In a conventional personal scale encounter, yes the vehicle can move to whatever band it likes (with perhaps the exception of the engaged band).

In a Chase (see the breakout box on the Chase) the distance is determined only by the competitive check. Speed can give you additional bands if you're successful, but it doesnt allow conventional movement rules to suddenly apply.

22 hours ago, Ghostofman said:

That isn't how the Chase mechanics work. Chase is a separate movement system from fly/drive. In fact you can't make a fly/drive maneuver at all during a Chase, at least not to change the distance between Chase participants.

You're looking at basic movement options. In a conventional personal scale encounter, yes the vehicle can move to whatever band it likes (with perhaps the exception of the engaged band).

In a Chase (see the breakout box on the Chase) the distance is determined only by the competitive check. Speed can give you additional bands if you're successful, but it doesnt allow conventional movement rules to suddenly apply.

Yes, but try extrapolating that speed advantage out by creating a 'character speed' rating

• Use the '1 vehicle maneuver = 4 character maneuvers' as a starting guideline
• Assume Characters are 'Character Speed 1'
• Per the 'Drive' entry, four maneuvers will probably get you to Medium (two maneuvers to get to short, and probably another two to get to medium).
  • Speed 1: One starship maneuver to move within close range of a target or object, or two starship maneuvers to move from close to short range or from short range to close range.
• Using the same 'Drive' rules, you need Speed 5 or 6 to get to Medium in a single maneuver, so the 'vehicle speed 1' vehicle is probably 'character speed 5 or 6'
  • Speed 5-6: One starship maneuver to move within close range of a target or object, to move from close to medium range , or from medium to close range. Two starship maneuvers to move from close to long, or long to close range
• Per the chase rules, the 'character speed 5 or 6 vehicle' will gain 5 or 6 increments (one plus the speed difference) on the 'character speed 1' characters if it wins the check, which is more than enough to catch up...

If it wins a single check, the 'slow' vehicle wins the chase...