The D6 system had a mechanic in place where a character could collect dark side points and turn to the dark side. A PC steps on enough babies (and enjoys it) and the GM takes their character away for good.

I never played it, but I gather that the D20 engine had something similar in place - be too evil, lose your character.

I haven't found anything in EotE that's similar. Did I just overlook a rule somewhere? Or did FFG not build that into the engine.

Wizard of the Coast had a Dark Side system, yes. It was based on your Wisdom Score. Your Wisdom = your capacity of good, and then every time you did an evil act you shaded in a square. So if you had a Wisdom score of 12, you had 12 squares, and 12 evil acts would mean you had succumbed wholly to the Dark Side. Good acts could likewise redeem you.

Taking away your character was an optional suggestion depending on the campaign/game being run. It was possible to run a Dark Side campaign, for instance.

There is no such mechanic in Edge of the Empire. I wouldn't be surprised to see one introduced in Force and Destiny however, perhaps that will be the big unique mechanic for that game, similar to how (I and others suspect) Obligation is the cornerstone of Edge of the Empire.

Having said that, there are Destiny Tokens obviously (Light Side and Dark Side), and it is recommended that evil characters use the system in reverse (that a player, particular a Force Sensitive Exile, would utilize Dark Side Destiny Points rather than Light).

In the Force Power trees you see examples of this. Force users can only use Dark Side Destiny Points when it is tied to negative qualities like selfishness, fear, and anger. So there's a "temptation" mechanic in place where you can't use Dark Side points at all normally, unless you use it in corrupt ways.

I would not be interested in seeing a mechanic where characters get taken away or become NPC characters for being evil. Players ought to role-play as the characters they want to be, and clever GMs should be able to create reasons for opposite characters to work together reluctantly.

"The long-term consequences of constantly tapping into the dark side of the Force are left up to the roleplaying of the player and the GM." -- p. 278

I love being long-winded and irrelevant, but sure, I guess you could just come out with a one-liner from the book and answer the question directly. There's that approach.

I would suggest players that are interested in the force get with the GM and maybe keep a running tally of such events. That way when F&D comes out they could have a pretty good idea where there character stands if it is relevant.

I would suggest players that are interested in the force get with the GM and maybe keep a running tally of such events. That way when F&D comes out they could have a pretty good idea where there character stands if it is relevant.

Not a bad idea. I think it would beneficial regardless to keep track of, whether it's relevant in the rules or not. There's only so many Younglings you can murder before the GM goes, "you know what? You're kind of a villain now."

I love being long-winded and irrelevant, but sure, I guess you could just come out with a one-liner from the book and answer the question directly. There's that approach.

"Brevity is the soul of wit." -- Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2

Less witty: struggling with the Dark side is an excellent story hook that deserves to be played out in full and not relegated to beans dutifully counted.

Less witty: struggling with the Dark side is an excellent story hook that deserves to be played out in full and not relegated to beans dutifully counted.

It's a fair cop. Besides, if I'd been doling out the Dark Side points, Anakin would've gone over long before he did.

Having said that, there are Destiny Tokens obviously (Light Side and Dark Side), and it is recommended that evil characters use the system in reverse (that a player, particular a Force Sensitive Exile, would utilize Dark Side Destiny Points rather than Light).

In the Force Power trees you see examples of this. Force users can only use Dark Side Destiny Points when it is tied to negative qualities like selfishness, fear, and anger. So there's a "temptation" mechanic in place where you can't use Dark Side points at all normally, unless you use it in corrupt ways.

I think you need to re-read that section. Players never use Dark Side Destiny Points even if they are Dark Side Force Users. Also, it isn't Dark Side Destiny points you need to use for negative emotions. It is Force Points generated through rolling Dark Side on the Force Die that let you cause negative emotions.

Having said that, there are Destiny Tokens obviously (Light Side and Dark Side), and it is recommended that evil characters use the system in reverse (that a player, particular a Force Sensitive Exile, would utilize Dark Side Destiny Points rather than Light).

In the Force Power trees you see examples of this. Force users can only use Dark Side Destiny Points when it is tied to negative qualities like selfishness, fear, and anger. So there's a "temptation" mechanic in place where you can't use Dark Side points at all normally, unless you use it in corrupt ways.

I think you need to re-read that section. Players never use Dark Side Destiny Points even if they are Dark Side Force Users. Also, it isn't Dark Side Destiny points you need to use for negative emotions. It is Force Points generated through rolling Dark Side on the Force Die that let you cause negative emotions.

Oh ... yeah. I got mixed up there. You're right, of course.

Edited: Wait a second ... page 282, Influence Special Rule, end of paragraph:

"This means that to generate negative emotions, the average player must first roll [1 Dark Side], then flip a Destiny Point and suffer strain to use them."

So there's some truth to what I said.

It's a mechanic they will explore in FaD.

"Full-fledged Jedi and other powerful Force users suffer unique penalties for this [using dark side results] that are not detailed here." pg. 278

So Force Sensitive Exiles are too minor league for it to matter much, outside of roleplaying. That fits the films. It's not until he gets a little training that Luke is in danger of falling. "This is a dangerous time for you, when you will be tempted by the Dark Side of the Force"

If my upcoming gray-ish jedi/sith dude (who is using Light Side points as his default) ends up converting a significant number of DS points, I'm going to have it start effecting him. If he only does it now and again, i won't worry about it. But, if he uses then with incredible frequency, he'll start feeling it pull at him. I might have it take the form of an obligation that slowly grows as he abuses the Dark Side.

If your group wants a "falling to the dark side" mechanic, I think a fairly simple solution would be to create a Dark Side Obligation. Those who call upon the dark side too often start gaining obligation, which will start to cause them problems. Perhaps if the obligation is triggered with doubles, the session focuses on this struggle. If the character chooses the quick and easy path, he falls to the dark side (maybe becoming an NPC). If he keeps it together, he works off some of that obligation.

If your group wants a "falling to the dark side" mechanic, I think a fairly simple solution would be to create a Dark Side Obligation. Those who call upon the dark side too often start gaining obligation, which will start to cause them problems. Perhaps if the obligation is triggered with doubles, the session focuses on this struggle. If the character chooses the quick and easy path, he falls to the dark side (maybe becoming an NPC). If he keeps it together, he works off some of that obligation.

I love this idea, but I would NEVER "Make a character become an NPC" without full 100% permission from the player. I would MUCH rather have the player choose to leave on their own and turn the character over to you, or have their character confront the PCs and fight them himself, possibly with other evil friends that he has made along the way. Never ever EVER be like "Well you're evil now, you lose your character and I'm going to play him now by go make a droid or something." It is THEIR character, and the only thing that can truly make them lose control of their character is if they are being mind controlled or if they die. But, if their character is falling to the darkside, you are definitely welcome to encourage them to turn on the party. I LOVE inter party conflict!

In my "Ways of the Force" fan supplement, I included a sidebar/text box to address this sort of thing since one of the new Force-Sensitive Specializations I had was the Dark Side Acolyte.

“It is a terrible thing, to fall. But far more terrible is to admit it.”
In contrast to prior Star Wars RPGs, Edge of the Empire doesn’t list a means to gauge when a Force-user has fallen to the dark side of the Force. Instead, it’s left in the hands of the GM and the player to determine where that threshold is and when the character has crossed it. But rather than attempt to codify and track a character’s fall with a “Dark Side meter,” here are some suggested guidelines to keep in mind when trying to determine if a character has truly fallen to the dark side of the Force.

• Does the character frequently convert Dark Side Force Points in order to get more use of their Force Powers?
• Does the character frequently resort to violence at even the slightest provocation, perceived or otherwise?
• Does the character often indulge in or enjoy causing pain and suffering in others, especially when it’s unnecessary?
• Does the character actively antagonize and attack others with little or no provocation?
• Does the character’s actions focus on gaining power for their own selfish purposes with no thought to the well-being of others?

If the answers to three or more of these questions are “Yes,” then odds are good that Force-user has fallen to the dark side and should now be considered a Dark Side Force-user, using the rules laid out in the side bar of page 278 of the EotE core rulebook. It is possible for a character to redeem themselves and return to the light, but that would require several session only taking actions that would result in a “No” to all five of the above list of questions. It’s easy enough to fall to the dark side, but so much harder to step back into the light.

In short, my suggestion was to leave it purely as a role-playing thing, with some guidelines to judge the character's behavior as to whether or not they were in danger of falling to the dark side.

As for how "evil" a particularly action would be, I'd also suggest making use of Gary Sarli's "5 Questions" from Jedi Counseling #111 for Saga Edition. Although they were written for a system with a defined dark side score, they can still be used as a benchmark to see just how evil an action is.

Those questions are:

- Did the action harm a sentient, living creature?

- Did the action harm a character that was at your mercy (i.e. incapable of defending themselves)?

- Did the action cause serious harm to a character (physically, mentally, or emotionally)?

- Was the action unnecessary to protect yourself or another character from an immediate, obvious threat?

- Was the action deliberate and the result intended?

If the answer to all of them is "Yes," then it's a blatantly evil action. If exactly one question can be answered "No", then it's a questionably evil action. If exactly two questions can be answered "No", then it's a dubiously evil action. If three or more can be answered "No", then it's not really a dark side transgression at all. The article also suggests that the more you have to parse and explain an action to make it acceptable, the more likely it is to be a transgression.

I really don't support turning the character into an NPC. Let natural consequences occur. Either her companions are fine with her turn to the Dark Side or they aren't. If the former, prepare for a darker game. If the latter, prepare for a showdown.

I could foresee an Obligation for dark side users in future books, that would be interesting and fit with the system.

I see very little need to remove a beloved PC because he's gone darkside in a game ostensibly about rogues, bounty hunters and other miscreants. After all, the player is still in control of the character's story even if the character seems to be out of control. Using the Obligation mechanic is a great way to represent this concretely (e.g.: why is this guy turning to evil?), and it also gives the player a way to resolve his fall story-wise (if he overcomes it, he's redeemed -- horray!, if not... ).

I see very little need to remove a beloved PC because he's gone darkside in a game ostensibly about rogues, bounty hunters and other miscreants. After all, the player is still in control of the character's story even if the character seems to be out of control. Using the Obligation mechanic is a great way to represent this concretely (e.g.: why is this guy turning to evil?), and it also gives the player a way to resolve his fall story-wise (if he overcomes it, he's redeemed -- horray!, if not... ).

Agreed

Inner party conflict, with my group at least, would most assuredly occur. While most of us are called roguish and miscreant types, those are labels placed upon us from the Empire. We are criminals and have bounties on our heads because an unjust system says so. We are rebels. A character within the party who started being "evil" on a consistent basis wouldn't have to worry much about what the GM would do. We would probably send him out an airlock. At least in our current campaign.

I also agree with the Obligation idea. There's nothing like using the rules already in place to handle something unexpected, especially when those rules would seem to handle it very well.

Our knowledge of the balance between the dark side and the light side of the Force has changed since the original movies. The Force interpretation in WEG Star Wars is now pretty outdated. I mean, take those rules as they are written, and Yoda should probably be a powerful Sith by this point.

In any case, you won't be playing Jedi in Edge of the Empire. You're playing someone who's begun to dabble in the Force at best, someone with only minor powers. As far as I'm concerned, you simply can't fall to the dark side before a certain point of your training. It appears to me that becoming a dark side Jedi requires both A) choice based on knowledge of what you're doing (so trickery to make someone turn into a dark Jedi won't work. It has to be a deliberate choice) and B) formal training in the ways of the Sith, either from a living teacher or some other source. You can't become neither a light side or dark side Jedi without both of those being fulfilled, though you can be force sensitive with some degree of power.

Again, keep in mind that much of the old EU material has been obsoleted by newer material, in particular that of the prequel trilogy. Seeing Yoda toss guards around or chop the heads off clone troopers using the Force should be enough to hammer that point in.

I think that some form of Dark Side Obligation is a great way to handle it.

As for turning or falling to e Dark Side of the Force, this requires you to make extensive use of the power of the Dark Side. Just as turning to the Light Side requires you to make use of its power.

A Jedi, Sith, Dark Jedi, Fallen Jedi, whatever goes through intensive training and learning about he ways and uses of the Force.

If simply being evil were enough the Jabba the Hutt would be a powerful Sith Lord. And Imperial Stormtroopers would likewise be consumed by the Dark Side.

I do agree that at some point a character must choose the Dark path. It is possible that they could be tricked or manipulated into it, the same as any other choice, but they still have to make the choice. As Obi-wan once said "He was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force."

I am as yet undecided, I had been playing with some form of mechanism to judge how far into the dark side the character had gone but I missed the unintended effect it would have on the game and the other characters. As to removing a players character when he has fallen to the dark side, so long as the player is fully aware of the situation I see no issue with it.

There is no difference between that and removing a character from the 40K games whose Insanity or Corruption has hit max, or Call of Cthulhu when the character has gone insane etc.

I would however insist;

1. that the player be kept under aware that if the character turns to the dark side then they are no longer playable,
2. that the player be informed when their actions would cause the character to slide toward the dark side and especially when the next action will cause that final change,
3. and lastly that the rest of the group were content with that solution to the characters fall.

I believe that so long as the player knows that their actions have led to this, they can't really complain about the loss of the character, also having a former party member become a nemesis could be a great roleplay opportunity. You could even give the original player the chance to 'be' their old character when it comes to a showdown, perhaps giving them a monologue to read or some kind of basic instructions as to what the characters likely responses would be.

E

Well, if you really want old school dark side points, just keep a tally of how many times a FSE calls upon the dark side or commits some kind of unspeakable atrocity. Set the threshold to Willpower x 3 or 4 to keep it on par with previous versions.

Well the only mechanic I have ever seen which represented the lure of the dark side pretty well was the preserver/defiler mechanic in AD&D 2nd edition Dark Sun...

Basically you advanced faster and had a bonus to your initiative when you used the "evil" way of the defiler...

A simple way to do something similar in Edge of the Empire (which has to be tweaked, though):
You pay only half the amount for a "dark side" version of a power.
This power has the dark side tag and is fuled by dark side force rather than light side force.
However, every time you do anything that does work against your own interests, you receive strain equal to the number of dark side powers you currently have...

or something like that.