My friend is starting up a Black Crusade campaign and I've been chosen to play the lone CSM in the group (for now). Reading through the character creation, I'm confused about how the new Unnatural Traits work now. It states that the Toughness and Strength are both +4. Did they change the mechanic in BC to add rather than multiply? And if so, do i add it before or after the bonus from power armor/

Unnatural are flat numerical increase to related Characteristic Bonus. So there isn't any before or after hassle anymore.

That's a huge relief. It makes this generation process much easier. Thanks much.

Also this should also be taken into account

BC Corebook p.144

" In addition, whenever someone with an Unnatural Characteristic succeeds on a Test utilizing that Characteristic, they gain a number of bonus Degrees of Success equal to half of their Unnatural Characteristic"

Also remember that all instances of Unnatural Characteristics stack, so an instance of UNS +4 and another UNS +2 means you've got +6.

Also remember that all instances of Unnatural Characteristics stack, so an instance of UNS +4 and another UNS +2 means you've got +6.

Could you reference the page number for this. If memory serves correctly you only gain the Highest Unnatural Characteristic.

I could also remember wrong.

I'm not sure all of them stack. Does CSM who takes syntmuscule get US+8 as a result? For me it seems like he just replaced his superior muscules with inferior ones so he ends with US+4 and -10 to Agi checks (sililar to trying to mono a lathe blade IMO). Bonuses from gifts and rewards of the gods however should stack with anything else.

I don't remember how many non-warp and non-psychic Unnaturals there are in the game: CSM US and UT, UI from calculus implant, synthmuscule. Anything else?

Yes, they all stack. CSM with BC synthmuscles got +8 UNS. Mark of Khorne grants an extra +1 UNS. Chaos Organ grants an extra +1 UNT to your CSM if you want that.

Not anywhere close to a book to reference a page number at the moment, but it's kinda implied by that +, right?

I might give that to those Gifts of Chaos/Cybernetics/other things that have that + in their description. But as Synthmuscle only says that it grants UNS (4) might play it as not giving if SMC tries to get it

I might give that to those Gifts of Chaos/Cybernetics/other things that have that + in their description. But as Synthmuscle only says that it grants UNS (4) might play it as not giving if SMC tries to get it

The rules are just inconsistent in their terminology: Unnatural Characteristic (+x), Unnatural Characteristic (x) and Unnatural Characteristic x are all used for the same effect.

CSM are strong not because of synthmuscles, but because they're biologically strong. Add synthmucles to that? Yes, they become even stronger but gets a bit more rigid (the agility penalty). Tadam. Logic.

@BrotharTearer

And where do you put the Synth Muscles? I'd assume they replace the actual muscles - the augmented Astartes muscles that are likely already superior to what you're implanting.

@BrotharTearer

And where do you put the Synth Muscles? I'd assume they replace the actual muscles - the augmented Astartes muscles that are likely already superior to what you're implanting.

Where?

"Ropey strands of vat-grown muscle tissue, thick with slurried nutrients and laced with flakweave, are woven into existing muscle groups granting increased strength of varying levels."

They don't replace anything.

I guess that's right but is still somewhat feels wrong.There is a limit to how much you can enhance something with normal means and I to me CSM are already at that limit.
But that's just me.

Then that's a houserule.

I guess that's right but is still somewhat feels wrong.There is a limit to how much you can enhance something with normal means and I to me CSM are already at that limit.

But that's just me.

Fabius Bile seems to disagree. Granted, his means aren't exactly 'normal'.

I guess that's right but is still somewhat feels wrong.There is a limit to how much you can enhance something with normal means and I to me CSM are already at that limit.

But that's just me.

What do you understand by "normal means"? Both gene-therapy that changes the bulk and composition of your muscles and a surgery to graft extra muscle tissue aren't "normal" in my book.

Normal as non-warp and non-augmentics.

While gene-therapy isn't 'normal', how much can it really upgrade your already heavy upgraded muscules?

I would not allow it simply for balance reasons.

Black Crusade's cybernetics are even more borked than Rogue Trader's. They should be at least a category less available.