Does Scatter ans Autofire stack?
That is, do you get 2 extra hits if you get a two degree success on a semiautoburst with a Combat in close range?
So far I have allowed it, but I am not sure if it is overpowered, because if you dont allow it i dont really see the point of using the semiauto fire on the shotgun.
According to the errata, scatter is worked out independantly of the semi/full auto fire of a shotgun, resulting in quite hideous amounts of hits from a shotgun at close range [i have seen 9 hits before].
However it is worth pointing out you have to get within 3 metres/yards of a target to get point blank range [and thus scatter] and if you moved into that you are unable [i think] to fire anything but a single shot from a weapon, which prevents you getting both sets of bonuses.
Therefore you are likely to find only other people with shotgun weapons getting that close to you without engaging straight into hand to hand [and thus removing your bonuses]
my players found a nice way to get people into pointblank before firing a semi auto burst, though it only works against enemies that try to get in melee. So its been very useful for them recently as they have been dealing with orks.
They fire normally until the ork gets near charging range, then they go into overwatch. The ork charges and the player states that he will fire his overwatch once the enemy is within pointblank. i haven't been able to see anything in the rules that mean this isn't allowed, though i have made it a fair bit riskier for the player by saying that if the ork survives then his attacks can't be dodged or parried since you were so busy firing this round.
Ok, yeah i guess that the point blank rule does mitigate the insane damage the combat shotgun has the potential for. Most likely you will only get one such shot off with it in a combat, unless you have some good teamwork to manoeuvre and overwatch at the correct times.
darkstar952 said:
my players found a nice way to get people into pointblank before firing a semi auto burst, though it only works against enemies that try to get in melee. So its been very useful for them recently as they have been dealing with orks.
They fire normally until the ork gets near charging range, then they go into overwatch. The ork charges and the player states that he will fire his overwatch once the enemy is within pointblank. i haven't been able to see anything in the rules that mean this isn't allowed, though i have made it a fair bit riskier for the player by saying that if the ork survives then his attacks can't be dodged or parried since you were so busy firing this round.
Next time it happens, instead of charging into melee, the ork runs forward until he is close enough to throw his grenade...
macd21 said:
darkstar952 said:
my players found a nice way to get people into pointblank before firing a semi auto burst, though it only works against enemies that try to get in melee. So its been very useful for them recently as they have been dealing with orks.
They fire normally until the ork gets near charging range, then they go into overwatch. The ork charges and the player states that he will fire his overwatch once the enemy is within pointblank. i haven't been able to see anything in the rules that mean this isn't allowed, though i have made it a fair bit riskier for the player by saying that if the ork survives then his attacks can't be dodged or parried since you were so busy firing this round.
Next time it happens, instead of charging into melee, the ork runs forward until he is close enough to throw his grenade...
Unless your dealing with tankbustas or shoota boys that's not going to be an issue. After all Orks are of the mindset. WAAAAAAAAAAAGHH! I hit it with my Choppa. If that doesn't work I hit it harder with my Choppa.
Is there a reason to penalize players for using tactics?
have you ever tried to get an ork to hit a target with a grenade? the last time i tried that the ork missed and the grenade ended up landing at his feet. it was so funny/embarrasing that i don't want to risk repeating it.
Orks should send the grots in first to absorb any overwatch, then charge in themselves. Thats what they are there for!
One word Vanaheim. Full Auto 6 shotgun with a freaking red dot built in. This thing is banned from all of our DH games after one of our players turned traitor on us while wielding one. I wasn't wearing armour at the time and that thing is terrifying to say the least. I have an insane distaste for shotguns after that incident.
Kaihlik
Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:
Unless your dealing with tankbustas or shoota boys that's not going to be an issue. After all Orks are of the mindset. WAAAAAAAAAAAGHH! I hit it with my Choppa. If that doesn't work I hit it harder with my Choppa.
Is there a reason to penalize players for using tactics?
No, some orks like charging into hand to hand combat. Other ones like blowing things up with gunz, others like blowing things up with bombz, others like sneaking up behind you and then stabbin yuz in the back.
You aren't punishing your players for using tactics. You are punishing your players for making assumptions. Of course, the ork still probably won't miss. Ork answer to that problem: greater blast radius. That way, even if you miss you're bound to kill something .
Wheres the problem with Shotguns? They do only 1D10+4 without Pen. So no problem if the enemy has Armor (5 is enough to ride out most of the shots) yesterday one of our players got 200(!) Bullets flying in his direction in only one round and he only got 15 wounds.
Wait for the day when your players run around with Heavy Weapons or flamer
yes they only do d10+4, but with a good hit at point blank they can get well over 6 hits, possibly up to 9 (at least thats the most i have seen). With that many hits it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that the players will get rightous fury from at least one of the hits, and that means enemy go splat.
darkstar952 said:
yes they only do d10+4, but with a good hit at point blank they can get well over 6 hits, possibly up to 9 (at least thats the most i have seen). With that many hits it is pretty much a forgone conclusion that the players will get rightous fury from at least one of the hits, and that means enemy go splat.
Against unarmoured or lightly armoured targets (or those which are simply tough), perhaps. Against an Ork with a combined TB and Armour of 10... that 1d10+4 becomes 1d10-6 (30% chance of dealing damage with each hit). At which point, the Ork laughs, because you're 3m away, and it has a giant axe. Stormtroopers (AP6 carapace, TB 3-4) are similarly resilient to shotguns.
It does also require you getting into point blank range and staying there long enough to semi-auto or full-auto with the weapon... and really, the only people who're going to let you do that are people who are also using shotguns.
macd21 said:
Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:
Unless your dealing with tankbustas or shoota boys that's not going to be an issue. After all Orks are of the mindset. WAAAAAAAAAAAGHH! I hit it with my Choppa. If that doesn't work I hit it harder with my Choppa.
Is there a reason to penalize players for using tactics?
No, some orks like charging into hand to hand combat. Other ones like blowing things up with gunz, others like blowing things up with bombz, others like sneaking up behind you and then stabbin yuz in the back.
You aren't punishing your players for using tactics. You are punishing your players for making assumptions. Of course, the ork still probably won't miss. Ork answer to that problem: greater blast radius. That way, even if you miss you're bound to kill something .
Notice I put in other types of orks such as Tankbustas (da ones that like da bombs) and the Shoota boyz (Da shootiest gits in da Waagh not including the Flash gitz of course) and the stabby Kommandos are still trying to get into point blank range ie. melee.
Its not our game it's Darkstar's. So there's no real point in arguing over our takes on what orks will do... It's his.
Moved to this forum by request.
If you open up fullauto+scatter on a soft target at PB, shouldn't they go splat?
On a related note, has anyone cooked up rules for using slugs in shotguns?
Longinus said:
If you open up fullauto+scatter on a soft target at PB, shouldn't they go splat?
On a related note, has anyone cooked up rules for using slugs in shotguns?
I handle solid slugs by letting shotguns use SP ammo upgrades at the cost of their scatter quality.
I have been allowed slugs (equivalent to dum-dum rounds dealing d5 Fatigue), Mankillers (manstopper rounds +1AP becaue it's bigger), inferno rounds and whatever kind of gas/blast/web stuff can squeezed into the Arbites lockup we raided. Still don't know what was in all of the boxes we lifted...
Slaunyeh said:
Longinus said:
If you open up fullauto+scatter on a soft target at PB, shouldn't they go splat?
On a related note, has anyone cooked up rules for using slugs in shotguns?
I handle solid slugs by letting shotguns use SP ammo upgrades at the cost of their scatter quality.
I've used this way before. It works nicely with little if any changes.
The only rule we have modified with shotguns is Hipshotting an enemy in Hand to hand. My character uses a sawed-off <COMPACT> and it is attached to my belt on a swivel, so that I can just swivel it and get 1 shot off with it no aiming Bonus or scatter allowed.
I got the idea from"Wild West Tech" Tv show that showed some of the cool holsters back in the day that did this exact same thing but with handguns. The Downside is that since I am in HtH they get to use their dodge or parry. I use this technique when my character gets frustrated from missing things or not wounding things in HtH.