Being in cover can add one or two black dice to defence, although I operate with three levels - light, medium and heavy cover.

Being concealed adds up to three black dice ro ranged attacks.

If you're hiding in shoulder high grass you would add 2 dice to any ranged attacks targeting you.

What if' you're peeking over a stone wall? Then you're partially concealed as being in shoulder high grass and thus should add +2 black dice to any ranged attacks targeting you because of concealment. On top of that you should also add at least 2 dice for cover, so total of four dice added.

I this wasn't true, it would be as good to hide behind a courtain as it would be to hide behind a thick stone wall.

I say that concealment and cover are cumulative

For being in a bunker and shooting out of a narrow slit I'd add +6 black dice to any ranged attacks targeting you.

Total cover means you can't be targeted. I don't make cover and concealment cumulative since cover is always concealment as well.

Total cover means you can't be targeted. I don't make cover and concealment cumulative since cover is always concealment as well.

Yep but then hiding behind a sheet and a brick wall is equally effective. Just seems odd and since defense isn't on par with offensive upgrades, it's good for balance too :-)

Which do you think that blaster bolt is going to penetrate better? The sheet or the brick wall? If you you are hiding that is concealment not cover and you are not in combat.

Honestly all I see here is a power gamer. . .

Total cover means you can't be targeted. I don't make cover and concealment cumulative since cover is always concealment as well.

Yep but then hiding behind a sheet and a brick wall is equally effective. Just seems odd and since defense isn't on par with offensive upgrades, it's good for balance too :-)

I don't have the rules in front of me (thanks to no PDF) but I would rule concealment doesn't work or is less effective if part of you visible. The purpose of concealment is not knowing exactly where you are. So poking your head out from behind a curtain would only be light concealment to me, but doing the same with a brick wall would be heavy cover.

Which do you think that blaster bolt is going to penetrate better? The sheet or the brick wall? If you you are hiding that is concealment not cover and you are not in combat.

Honestly all I see here is a power gamer. . .

I'm a GM and concerned with the fact that defense needs a boost to balance out all the upgrades to offense. Since concealment in the text says you add black dice to any ranged attacks targeting you, I'd say that you could very well be concealed and be in combat and benefit from it :-)

Without my rule about concealment stacking with cover, the penetration of the sheet compared to a brick wall is irrelevant.

The difference is that Cover can be negated by Precise Aim, Concealment from darkness cannot as one increases defence the other doesn't.

I might be inclined to let it stack, but first off I'd see what gave them the largest bonus, then I'd perhaps add 1 from the other environmental effect, I wouldn't just add it all together, that would be pointless and boring for the game. So if heavy duty cover, following your wish for +3 setback dice for heavy cover (if I understand you correctly), and in darkness I'd perhaps add one more setback die on top of that for a total of 4 the first round or until the concealed and covered character opened fire - concealment becomes less relevant once people know where you are shooting from too Once the combat broke out the one in cover would lose concealment if firing his blaster, but retain defence bonus from cover.

The difference is that Cover can be negated by Precise Aim, Concealment from darkness cannot as one increases defence the other doesn't.

I might be inclined to let it stack, but first off I'd see what gave them the largest bonus, then I'd perhaps add 1 from the other environmental effect, I wouldn't just add it all together, that would be pointless and boring for the game. So if heavy duty cover, following your wish for +3 setback dice for heavy cover (if I understand you correctly), and in darkness I'd perhaps add one more setback die on top of that for a total of 4 the first round or until the concealed and covered character opened fire - concealment becomes less relevant once people know where you are shooting from too Once the combat broke out the one in cover would lose concealment if firing his blaster, but retain defence bonus from cover.

I see what you're saying, but if they can only shoot at your face and reliably hit you, then it's a lot harder no matter if they know you're there. Perhaps it would make more sense if concealment added black dice and cover added soak, but soak is fine as it is and defense needs a boost. I'll try it out a few sessions and see how it balances out :-)

That was going to be my next question, have you played yet?

From beta-testing this since October last year, while defence might seem under powered, it doesn't need as big a boost as you make it seem. Not at all, not in my experience at least.

That was going to be my next question, have you played yet?

From beta-testing this since October last year, while defence might seem under powered, it doesn't need as big a boost as you make it seem. Not at all, not in my experience at least.

Yeah we have played 4 quite long sessions since beta. But it's pure math and propability, not just experience that makes me say defense needs a boost,

I d consider the following: Concealment = 1 cumulative black die

Partial Cover = 1 black die

Heavy Cover = 2 black dice

Thus, hiding behind a heavy tank trap in daylight is roughly as effective as hiding behind a fence in a cloud of smoke, which seems about fair to me. Shooting someone who only sticks their head out in said smoke cloud is really difficult.

Cover is about hitting the exposed pieces, not about absorbing the shot through material, which technically would be soak, thats why cover is adding to defense instead. One could argue that cover would possibly be better handled by raising the difficulty of the shot, but the rules system is not really coherent in its way of handling that part.

Thus, one COULD rule that you can always just ignore cover (and only take the concealment die) and you add a certain amount of soak for the defender, to shoot through the cover. Its not overly complicated.

BUT: For my own game, I use the following concept:

Concealment and Cover are both 1 black die. If the defender is covered by more than half, he may upgrade the cover die once. If he is really only visible by his weapon, head and shoulders (think military-style foxholes or similar), he may upgrade twice. If you calculate probabilities, it makes defense slightly stronger than the multiple black dice, but barely so (the Despair kind of warps it), BUT my players seem to find it much more logical (better cover = better dice, instead of more dice) and we usually have too few red dice anyway

Yeah we have played 4 quite long sessions since beta. But it's pure math and propability, not just experience that makes me say defense needs a boost,

Oh, ok. Well, I'll take experience over math but that's me. I think adding six setback dice for darkness (or your high grass) and super-cover as per your wish is absurd and makes for a boring game, but hey, each to his own.

Yeah but 6 would be extreme. Being in a bunker firing from a slit. A very rare situation. Most likely 4 would be max.

Being in a bunker firing from a slit wouldn't really be concealment. Just really really really heavy cover.

Now if you were in a bunker firing from a slit in the middle of the night... then the attackers probably should be attacking because they have an obvious disadvantage.