Well, I think this manoeuvre is good enough to benefit the pilot, who would otherwise not really get to do stuff in space combat except manoeuvres and escaping, perhaps plot a course... the gunners can always have Precise and/or True Aim to negate any defensive measures still pointing their way.

Anyway, we obviously disagree on this, I think its better from a gameplay perspective to have it benefit the Pilot and not everyone on the ship, perhaps that is the RAI, perhaps it isn't.

My question then is: if the Pilot succeeds a Gains the advantage check, can the gunners on his ship benefit from that during their turn, the same turn that is (depending on what sort of initiative order you decide to use: per ship or per individual agent in the combat), or must they - like the pilot - wait until the following round to get their shots lined up? If yes: then its no longer very good for starfighters is it?

It's not a maneuver, but an action, hence my opinion that it should be more powerful.

the talent as written is in my oppinion pretty darn close to being worthless at rank 1 and only slightly usefull at rank 2 and given that we are not talking about 5xp talents here ...that = xp sink which I will do my darnest to avoid ever spending pts on.

keep in mind that blue dice are better than black dice ... NOT the same.

Well, I think this manoeuvre is good enough to benefit the pilot, who would otherwise not really get to do stuff in space combat except manoeuvres and escaping, perhaps plot a course... the gunners can always have Precise and/or True Aim to negate any defensive measures still pointing their way.

Anyway, we obviously disagree on this, I think its better from a gameplay perspective to have it benefit the Pilot and not everyone on the ship, perhaps that is the RAI, perhaps it isn't.

My question then is: if the Pilot succeeds a Gains the advantage check, can the gunners on his ship benefit from that during their turn, the same turn that is (depending on what sort of initiative order you decide to use: per ship or per individual agent in the combat), or must they - like the pilot - wait until the following round to get their shots lined up? If yes: then its no longer very good for starfighters is it?

It's not a maneuver, but an action, hence my opinion that it should be more powerful.

I was not referring to it as a manoeuvre in game terms. The argument still stands.

I think the best solution for the Precise Aim talent, unless major revision is desired, would be to let it also apply the usual Aim benefits? It improves upon Aim at least if this is RAI (and it could be), or if not: house-rule it.

the talent as written is in my oppinion pretty darn close to being worthless at rank 1 and only slightly usefull at rank 2 and given that we are not talking about 5xp talents here ...that = xp sink which I will do my darnest to avoid ever spending pts on.

keep in mind that blue dice are better than black dice ... NOT the same.

Actually the negative dice are as good as the positive dice for this reason.

IF you roll the same on a negative and a positive die, then the result is nil meaning the negative die actually wins ties so to speak.

So in terms of successes and advantages, the positive die needs to roll one extra symbol compared to the negative dice to "win".

So even though the negative dice has very very slightly fewer symbols on them, they are absolutely comparable to positive dice, because they win draws where the same amount is rolled ;-)

But I agree on Precise Aim and I think I'll go with the more interresting option of applying the same number of black dice on the targets next check. It gives more options, than just making regular aim count too.

Purple dice are better than green dice on a 1 on 1 basis Success rate: 34,4% and getting one or more advantages 25,0%

A black against a blue nets a succes rate of 22,2% and a chance of one or two advantages of 38,9%. Black dice are better than blue dice.

A yellow against a red gives a success rate of 34,7% and a chance for 1+ advantage of 30,5%

So generally, when you consider that getting a result of nothing equals failure, then the negative dice are actually better than the positive dice.

It evens out as more dice are added, so with 5 of each die you get the following:

1+ success: 56,4%

1+ advantage: 45,9%

So in a normal dice pool the positive dice are fairly comparable. The less dice you have in your pool, the more impact the negative dice have. But generally, the negative dice will have the upper hand in most cases when you add one of each.

With the following dice pool: 3 green + 3 yellow + 1 purple + 2 red + 2 black you have:

Success: 70,8%

Advantage: 60,4

If you add a blue you get:

Success: 75,3%

Advantage: 70,3%

if you remove a black instead you get:

Success: 76,3%

Advantage: 66,4%

So it's not all black and blue, but if you were to remove two black instead of adding a blue you get:

Success: 81,4%

Advantage: 72,2%

So at rank two the talent is all positive :-)

yeah but as far as I remember the black die has less results than the blue die??? (please correct me if Im wrong)

Yes the blue has two advantages more in the form of a double advantage that can never be cancelled by a single setback die. But each have two success/failure, meaning the black die is a lot better (see above propability calculations) as it makes you miss on a draw. Also those two extra advantages aren't as much better as they seem, because the black die also wins draws here so to speak.