So we are a group of 5 people and all of us see the OL very over powered. Last game we gave up because there was no chance to win. (it was the intermezzo - the real overlord)

did you make the same experience. ?

what to do?

we play one of each class.

and is it the right way for the recruitment for the OL that he takes the elite monsters all the time. We kill the elite monter and in the next turn the monster is on the table again. this is annoying.

we have not got all treasures. there was no time. so some of us play with low weapons. i dont know if we can pass the second act. i am the scout and i have a bow with one yellow and one blue cube.

A single monster is only allowed to make one attack per turn. If a monster's special ability allows it to perform an attack, that counts as its one attack. Are you playing this correctly?

As for your questions, yes, the OL is allowed to reinforce the master monster in a group if it has been defeated. You could try to focus on doing things to disable the master without defeating it if this is a problem. Try to keep it Stunned or Immobilized as much as possible.

Maintain focus on the hero objectives. If you spend all your time trying to kill monsters you'll never get anywhere - they just keep coming back, as you have already observed.

If all else fails, try rotating who plays the OL. Play a series of one-shot games instead of a campaign, and let someone new play the OL each time. If everyone has experience behind the curtain, it becomes a lot easier to understand what the OL can and cannot do.

If you're playing a campaign, then focus on getting treasures at the start of act 1 and act 2 (even if this would mean that you'll lose the first scenarios). With a good equipment, things will get much easier in the following quests.

One of our most successful partys was a group that was mainly focused on getting treasures (Silhouette as thief in combination with Aurim – this combination allows you to get through the whole treasure deck in every scenario, cherry-picking the best treasure cards.)

In my group the OL has lost everything thing ( Iam the OL Lol)

I think it depends a lot how you play, don´t be in a hurry, normally you have lot of time so advance slowly and don´t miss any treasures you will need the money.

But then I have played with another group where I win a lot, but they are in a more hurry.

So as they say before try different play styles and don´t be in a hurry, last single game we played did take 7h. For the moment the Campaign has take about 30h and we have 2 games left.

@Steve-O

yes we know he is allowed to atack one in his turn with each monster.

a question. there are these dogs or lions. (sorry i do not know how they are called in english) they have a abilitie to "shout". does this shout also count as a attack?

ok. so we have to focus on the treasures aswell.

If the name attack is in the description, it normaly counts as an attack:

Q: What defines a monster "attack"? Players have proposed various tests: (a) does it do damage, (b) does it use the word "attack" on the card, © does it involve rolling the blue attack die? Is Bash considered an attack? It meets (a), but not (b) or ©.

Here you have a good FAQ:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Descent_Second_Edition_Unofficial_FAQ#toc59

Here the official, if you don´t have found it :

http://fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=176&esem=4

to count as an attack it has to meet all three: a, b and c. when not it does not count as an attack?

Perhaps the reading of the following thread, where players find the heroes overpowered, could offer some "cosmical balance" answers to the OP's problems : http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/85205-poor-overlord-heroes-op/

@Steve-O

yes we know he is allowed to atack one in his turn with each monster.

a question. there are these dogs or lions. (sorry i do not know how they are called in english) they have a abilitie to "shout". does this shout also count as a attack?

ok. so we have to focus on the treasures aswell.

If you are talking about the ability Howl, then no. That is an action that takes away fatigue. Barghest as not easy beasts to get around.

Also good to note that your goal as the Heroes is not to kill every monsters you see, you have an objective and you should go for it from the start. Sure you'll have to fight on your way but ultimately you have to accomplish your objective.

Read the Quest infos very well so you know what you need to do to win and make a plan for it.

only problem is that the OL blocks the whole maps with his big monsters..

only problem is that the OL blocks the whole maps with his big monsters..

Yep that's a known and legit strategy for the OL to make him gain some time to accomplish HIS objective while slowing down the Heroes advance toward their objective.

That's the way D2E is made, giving both sides an objective and most quests being a race, that's what happens.

Just do what we did as the Heroes, we have an awesomely powerful group with Reayhart as Champion (boosting others with Valor), Alvric as Disciple (Aura of healing and protection, he's the tank with Aurium Mail and Shield of the Dark God...he's **** awesome), Tomble as Thief (grabing treasures 3 spaces away and raining bolts with his crossbow) and Quellen as Runemaster (Blasting monsters from afar).

No Shadow Dragon can last more than 2 turns if we don't miss.

well chossen group

well chossen group

Yeah honestly we were lucky since we didn't played that much Descent and it was our first serious Campaign. After only 2 Quests in Act I we realised how powerful we were...and the OL was a bit discouraged.

I really want to try a 4 Mages group, or 4 Dwarves or anything funky like that. That's what I like about the Conversion Kit, LOTS of possibilities for OL and Heroes.

But a 4-Mage group is in my plan for 2013 lol.

But a 4-Mage group is in my plan for 2013 lol.

I am trying to tell my heroes that's a good idea but they won't bite! I think it sounds really strong, no matter how I build my deck agianst mages! Mages hurt! And all their pets >P

As Overlord, I seem to win about 2/3 of the time. Roughly half of those wins result in the Heroes becoming too cocky, thinking that their win is assured, which results in them letting down their guard. The quests in which they are absolutely sure they are going to fail, they all but give up on accomplishing their goal, and instead focus on grabbing every search token off the map. This strategy has helped them out a number of times, since they're pretty well stocked with all new gear.

The party make-up also seems to make a big difference. Playing as a Hero, our two-man team of a beastmaster and geomancer was NOT ideal. The Hero group for the campaign which I'm overlording (heh heh), though?

Widow Tahra - Runemaster (her hero ability allows her to reroll a die, maximizing her damage output)

Reynhart - Champion (valor tokens, valor tokens, VALOR TOKENS... I HATE THEM!)

Alvric - Disciple (heals frequently, nearly impervious to conditions, and re-outfitted with a sword, a bow, and an optional rune that can immobilize).

This team has easily turned Widow Tahra into a glass cannon/nuclear missile. EACH of her attacks easily deals 10 damage using Blast. Reynhart isn't doing as much damage, but he's currently outfitted with the Aurium Plate relic, which has made him very difficult to take down. Honestly, I haven't been able to defeat a hero in awhile... all my victories have been through careful planning, blocking the heroes and/or preventing them from moving, while trying my best to avoid Widow Tahra.

An overlord's greatest weapon is planning. It is mine anyways. it's harder for Heroes to plan because they all have to be present to do so. An OL needs to know everything about their heroes (weapons, skills, hero abilities, ect) in order to make a splash. Knowing your heroes' personality can be a huge plus for the OL. For me, I know how my friends think and I know what they are prone to do, even though they surprise me sometimes. Not not often though. I play Magic:The Gathering with them as well, and so that plays into me knowing them.

Knowledge is power. OL are opportunists (which I am naturally always) as well cheep. If standing in door ways does the trick, then it needs to be done. If heroes aren't expecting that, then they will most likely quickly find themselves at the mercy of a nasty OL.

to count as an attack it has to meet all three: a, b and c. when not it does not count as an attack?

Actually, that's not correct. To count as an attack, an ability must use the word "attack" in its description. In other words, it must meet condition (b) only. The question and answer that Pierre was quoting above is part of the official FAQ for the game, btw.

There are abilities that deal damage but aren't attacks, like Bash. There could also be attacks that don't deal damage, in theory. Some people might even argue that any attack which fails to deal damage because enough shields were rolled on defense is an attack that didn't deal damage. =P

There are also attacks that don't use the blue die, as of Labyrinth of Ruin. The Beastmaster has a skill card that allows his Wolf to make a Red, Red, Green, Green attack (no Blue - so it can't miss.)

As an overlord, I dread the players coming up with cohesive plans. As long as they only care about chopping up monsters like cordwood, I'm happy as a clam. I find that it is difficult to make good roadblocks with monsters, because of how flexible the movement rules are for the game. I have to congest hallways to even make a go of it, which means the players can rip through my monsters without them supporting one another.

I find that one of the heroes' biggest mistakes is using fatigue at the wrong times. I find them spending it to chop an odd zombie or some such, rather than using it for mission critical moves. Also, when players have two people doing more or less the same thing, i have a hard time countering it with a card, since if I stop one, they still do what they wanted anyway.

As an overlord, I dread the players coming up with cohesive plans. As long as they only care about chopping up monsters like cordwood, I'm happy as a clam.

A big part of playing the Overlord is knowing how to play your players. Keeping them distracted from their goal is almost as important as completing your own, and any dirty tricks you can come up with to that end is worthwhile. Timmy loves attacking undead with his cleric? Pick zombies as an open group whenever you can and put them on the outskirts of the map to draw him off. Etc.

well chossen group

Yeah honestly we were lucky since we didn't played that much Descent and it was our first serious Campaign. After only 2 Quests in Act I we realised how powerful we were...and the OL was a bit discouraged.

I really want to try a 4 Mages group, or 4 Dwarves or anything funky like that. That's what I like about the Conversion Kit, LOTS of possibilities for OL and Heroes.

But a 4-Mage group is in my plan for 2013 lol.

Please note that the rules explicitly say this is not allowed. Max 2 of given archetype is allowed.

I have read the rules more then once. It doesn't say you can have more then one archetype, but it also does not give your the limit. The limit is only on the class cards (you can't have two heroes share the same class). You can have an all mage campaign as long as you have four class cards under mage. The same is true with any other archetype.

If I am wrong, please point it out in the rules to me.

I have read the rules more then once. It doesn't say you can have more then one archetype, but it also does not give your the limit. The limit is only on the class cards (you can't have two heroes share the same class). You can have an all mage campaign as long as you have four class cards under mage. The same is true with any other archetype.

If I am wrong, please point it out in the rules to me.

I think you're right. Re-checked the rules quickly and it doesn't state that you're limited to 2 classes of an Archetype...the only restriction is you can't duplicate a class.

From my experience:

1st game -> OL won everything.

2nd game -> heroes won everything.

3rd game -> OL won everything

4th game -> balanced.

This is because the game relies heavy on setup. It is very important what items you buy and what skills you gain as heroes as well as what monster group and what OL cards you take. Also important is the scenario that you play. At the begining you have no way of knowing cool combos and you generally don't know and don't understand how to win a scenario. In such case, Overlord probably wins.

Then heroes learn from their losses, while overlord stays inexperienced, because he doesn't know why he won. He did nothing special. Any monster group chosen and any overlord card would give him a win in any scenario agaist unprepared heroes. Overlord needs to react to what hereos are chosing. If heroes make poor choices, OL needs to do nothing special.

This changes quickly and well prepared hereos start to destroy Overlord in such a way, that OL starts to think if he had ANY chances to win in the first place. Their damage is going up and they tend to wipe OL minions before OL gets to act.

Then it is time for overlord to analyse his cards and scenarios as well as hero cards and think a counterstrategy.

My advice for beginners is this:

* After every non-balanced adventure you had, sit down, all of you, including Overlord and discuss. Identify the problems and why the scenario couldn't be won by heroes. Did they have not enough damage? Or maybe poor defense? Or they lacked speed? Maybe if they had immobilize it would help? Or condition removal and/or heal? This way, you will know that if they intend to win that scenario next time, they need to be better prepared.

You mentioned that you only have the Yew Shortbow with your Wildlander. That is poor damage indeed. Here is your damage against monster that defends itself with just one gray die:

Damage (Range 1-2)

0 : 25,93%

1 : 15,74%

2 : 25,00%

3 : 21,30%

4 : 10,19%

5 : 01,85%

If you analyse the table, you can see that if you use your character to kill a monster like Barghest that has 4 hp, you will probably waste 2 actions and that doesn't guarantee a success. THis means you give up your entire turn for a chance to take away 2 actions from the Overlord. If Overlord gets reinforcements for this scenario, that's hardly worth the effort. You don't want to be in a situation with your character, were you are forced to kill a creature (for example blocks your path.)

So, you need to use your damage dealers to get through mobs, while your character is very good at positioning and movement. If your party lacks damage however, you need to think how to improve your character so that it deals more damage. One option would be to go for skills that improve your attack (Accurate, First Strike, Black Arrow). Other option to buy/get a weapon. Trueshot is a nice relic card for you, however you probably already lost a chance to get it if you did not win or did not played the Fat Goblin.

But I still think that your character is better in other roles than damage dealing (At least at the begining.)

Anyway, if you still have a certain scenario that you think is not winnable for heroes, post the details and we can discuss/have some advice. It is hard to give general advices in this game as each scenario and hero/OL setup is very different.

I have read the rules more then once. It doesn't say you can have more then one archetype, but it also does not give your the limit. The limit is only on the class cards (you can't have two heroes share the same class). You can have an all mage campaign as long as you have four class cards under mage. The same is true with any other archetype.

If I am wrong, please point it out in the rules to me.

I think you're right. Re-checked the rules quickly and it doesn't state that you're limited to 2 classes of an Archetype...the only restriction is you can't duplicate a class.

I'll try to find a source of my information and post it later then. I'm sure I saw that somewhere.

[EDIT:] Erm... Hmm I guess I'm wrong on that one. I might have misread the rules about class restriction and confused class with archetype.