Rules as written vs Rules as intended

Scout attacks a dwarf player with a single card in hand (grudge) and survives a combat. What happens?

When your capital is dealt combat damage , you may put this card into play from your hand (in any zone).

This is the way I see the situation.

According to this http://deckbox.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=232

section "beginning of the turn" 3rd question, we see that Constant Effects are always resolved first, then Forced Effects/

Triggered Actions are resolved in the next available Action window

Scout is the constant effect and grudge has a condition "When your capital is dealt combat damage, you may ". For me, the word "may" indicates a possible action (player decides to use it or not).

So, in this case, constant effect (Scout) resolves first.

Nope, dwarf grudges aren't actions, they're constants. If there isn't bolded word A ction: the effect isn't one.

Nope, dwarf grudges aren't actions, they're constants. If there isn't bolded word A ction: the effect isn't one.

it may not be defined with that word, but "may" disturbes me. I don't know any other forced or constant effect that allows you to chose, resolve it or not. Only Actions have such thing. That's why I think that Scout is dominant

Update.

May has two uses: 1) express possibility and 2) express permission.

If we accept that here we have permission to play Grudge card when the capital is dealt damage , then Whenever multiple effects of the same type occur at the same time (i.e. multiple Forced effects), the player whose turn it is resolves his in the order of his choice, then the next player resolves his in the order of his choice.

This gives us: according to Rulebook – scout is an effect. it has no bold trigger, so it is constant effect. Add here the statement above and in result we have – first you resolve Scout, then he does nothing ('cause he has no cards).

c2h4n I don't want to sound like an as*hole, but this topic is waiting for Mallumo to show because only he has contact with games devs to resolve this problem

it may not be defined with that word, but "may" disturbes me. I don't know any other forced or constant effect that allows you to chose, resolve it or not. Only Actions have such thing. That's why I think that Scout is dominant

Cloud of Flies, Clan Armoury, Tribal Tattoos...

We had this situation some time ago and I wasn't sure as well. Would be glad to have something official.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter. The grudge is either a conditional action (wherein it would resolve simultaneously with the keyword), or it is a triggered action, where it would resolve in the next available action slot. According to the new FAQ released, when two actions resolve simultaneously, the active player resolves his effects first, and then the other player resolves theirs.

If your scout is the one that attacked, his keyword would automatically resolve first, thereby discarding the grudge from hand.

Grudges aren't conditional actions, because they are not actions.

Their constants waiting for the trigger to happen.

Also scout keyword isn't a constant, it's a keyword, however it still tirggers at the same moment as the grudge.

Another problem is that in Timing Structure there is no timing for keywords, only constants, forced, actions.

If it was meant to be the same as in:

All instances of “after” in card text boxes should read “when.

I would say the active player chooses (which will always be the owner of the Scout).

But as for now I will go with Grudge resolves first (when happens before after I we rules lawyer it by words).

Simpre clarification from Devs is needed.

Scout works when the unit survives combat. A unit can die and still assign damage. Since a grudge enters play when damage is assigned wouldn't that imply the grudge enters play before scout happens?

I know this is conjecture, but this is the logic we have relied on when it has come up.

Nevermind, just reread that grudges say when damage is dealt not assigned. I agree with what Virgo said.

one problem: scout definition isn't in card text box, it's in the rulebook.

And now I should put some more mess here Shades =)

And now I should put some more mess here Shades =)

It's just a shortened version of defintion that doesn't specify timing.

I didn't have the card or FAQ in front of me at the time, but it really shouldn't matter. The logic is still the same. In the FAQ it still states on page 8 that when resolving a Keyword:

"Keywords and Conditional Actions are considered Constant Effects during all timing resolutions."

It states just above it that:

"When two non-Action card effects trigger at the same time. The player whose turn it is currently applies his in any order of his choice. Then, the opponent applies his card effects in any order of his choice."

The modified Detailed Timing Structure on page 16 shows the resolution order as follows:

A. After a Trigger Condition

1. Resolve triggered Constant Effects (all effects exist independently of their source)

-Active player resolves his effects in any order of his choice [Go to C ]

-Next player resolves his effects in any order of his choice, etc. [Go to C ]

2. Resolve Forced Effects (all effects exist independently of their source)

-Active player resolves his effects in any order of his choice [Go to C ]

-Next player resolves his effects

B. Action Window

You would still resolve both during the constant effect timing window, with the player whose turn it is (in this case the attacking player with the Scout keyword) resolving their effect first. The Scout keyword would resolve, discarding the Grudge before having a chance. Even if you considered the fact that they both triggered off the same Trigger Condition, the effect created by the Grudge would still exist in a window outside of the card itself. It would resolve as a simultaneous effect, but when it went to resolve it would no longer be in your hand to meet that condition, as the previous effect from the Scout would have resolved first and put that card in your discard pile, causing the Grudge's effect to fail.

Good catch with the fact that keywords resolve the same as constant effects, but still...

"After combat damage is applied" would be the same timing as "When your capital is dealt combat damage" only if this rule:

All instances of “after” in card text boxes should read “when.”

applies to rules outside of text boxes.

That is difficult to call since the Trigger Conditions are worded differently, but according to the FAQ page 15, " Damage is applied and its effects resolve ", indicating damage is applied all in one step and any effects from it resolve according to timing.

The capital and the Scout unit would take any damage at the exact same instant, so the capital is applied damage at the exact instant the Scout also survives combat, so both triggers would activate immediatly following the damage's application. The Grudge would still have to check to make sure 1 or more damage was actually applied to the capital, and the Scout would have to check to make sure the damage taken did not exceed remaining HP+cancellation effects. Both would return a "true" value, and trigger their effects.

still no clarification from devs? but i agree with Virgo as well, the active player should decide after the FAQ clarification.

still no clarification from devs? but i agree with Virgo as well, the active player should decide after the FAQ clarification.

Yeah, for all my walls of text, that was the point is was making. I agree that the active player should decide because ultimately the effects would trigger at once and the active player would resolve theirs first before the Grudge can be played.