Brighteyes said:

The DM running the game later admitted he'd given us stupidly over-leveled gear to get us into the game, but only after he'd killed off the entire team the next game (our poor Tech-priest drowned in pigsh... manure, my assassin ninja-flipped away from a bad-guy and landed in a trap involving a tree-shredder, the Priest got psychically bio-flamed, the Psykers head blew off [although this had nothig to do with the DM, just bad dice rolling] and the Guardsman went insane from seeing all this happen within five minutes) and the games subsequent to this were run on a "find out what happened to your far-superior pedecessors" deal.

My Metallican Gunslinger Assassin player has come across a Red Dot Sighted, Accurate, Hotshotted, Best-quality Dueling Laspistol. **** you, random loot generator!!!!

foxfax said:

Uh-oh! I am not sure how this worked. Alone the amount of dice rolling would take ages with my group.

My 5 players are rank 3 and they recently got more or less their ass handed by a lone Slaught Infiltrator. Actually only 3 of them (Guardsman - Grak, Arbitrator - Serghar, Tech-Priest - Mir Lug) were around during the confrontation. In the first round the suddenly appearing Slaught (fear tests were unsuccessfull but resulted only in 1-40 effects on the table) attacks the Guardsman (in Guard Flak Armour), with Tearing and Toxic the Guardsman loses about 7 Wounds kind of instantly. He sarts hacking with his sword at the Xeno but to no avail. The Arbitrator starts firing with his Pump-Action Shotgun and the Tech-Priests fires volley after volley of burst fire with his overcharged Lasgun at it. They all hit rather well, but are not able to wound the fricking creature. In the third or second round the Guardsman goes down with -8 Wounds (and -1 Fate Point...), while the Tech-Priest is still firing wildly at the Slaught and the Arbitrator lobs a frag grenade at it. The Xeno doges the grenade (enough AB to evade the blast radius) while firing its strange weapon against first the Arbitrator and later the Tech-Priest (both were rather good with dodging though (even the TP with an Ag of 28 and no dodge skill...)). The Slaught moves up the stairs and calls two of its pets (like a bigger variant of the boreworm from CA and with stats like the creature from the GM's Kit). The Arbitrator grabs the unconscious Guardsman and runs for the exit while the Tech-Priest follows. Both are able to handle the chasing xeno worm, but are really frightened (even the players...) and unsure how to proceed...

So, just to have an example how an encounter with a lone Slaught ends for my group, I am sure how long an enconter with the above mentioned menagerie would last for my characters...

Aye, the dice be a cruel mistress......

In my group we have an assassin who specialises in thrown weapons (I.e Everything that he can pick up) he's a feral assassin who has 40+ str and 40+ T to start with and got 20 on his BS roll, so he literally just grabs peoples guns and knifes hurls them at people doing 1d10+2 dmg on improvised (which has killed many people). I also made a house rule that for every 4kg's the thrown object does +1 more dmg. And he proceeded to throw flak armor at people and rocks. And when they arrived at the final boss He punched a wall and grabbed a chunk of debree, threw it hit the guy in the face with 5kg slap which was 1d10-2+4(str bonus)+1(weight bonus) = 1d10+3 rolled a 10 and a 9 so a total of 22 dmg to the guys chest (I was amazed)

Its not really a mix of weapon but rather a single weapon which the guardman of our group owns.

The very fac that I havent seen anything like it on here before makes me doubt its legal (rulewise) and it certainly does border on tech heresy but its pretty darn efficient.

The base is a spectre. Its a gun of the inquisitor handbook, its made in gunmetal city I think. Its a autogun with 3 chargers of 20 bullets and a fully integred shotgun (it holds 4 shells I think). You can switch between all of those firing modes at will (but you cant use 2 in the same turn).

Quite good already huh?

So, you get ahold of a best craftmanship version of the monster. You fil the shotguns with shells you like, the first autogun charger with man stoper bullets and the last with blessed amunition (just in case)

Then, the fun begins

Exterminator cartridge
Grenade launcher attachment
Mono melee attachment

We call it the mastergun
there is stuff you just cant kill
For everything else, there's Mastergun

SlimeTheGreat said:

How much does that thing weigh?

It's like the special gun in Fifth Element. Now you just gotta put a little yellow button on the side of the gun and don't tell him what it does.

I hate shot selectors so none of my players ever get them, I tend to make them by weapons off the shelf. Even so here is what my players have at the moment (although there is a good chance at least 2 of them will die next session).

Priest - Hand Flamer, Blessed Chainsword + 3 different types of pistol that I cant remember.

Techpriest - Hellgun, Bolo knife attacked to "balistic" mechadendrite (he is a mechanicus secutor with the mechanator array)

Guardsman - Bolter, Grenade Launcher with frag and photon flash grenades

Assassin - Blessed Monosword, 2 Deuling Laspistols with red dots, Long Las with hotshot clips.

This seems to be enough for them.

Why not like shot selectors?

They're legal and usefull. In my opinion, its kind of a waste playing in a futurist setting and not using the tastefull technology availlable.

Also, Yeah the Mastergun IS pretty heavy and hard to conceal. But on the plus side you only need to cary one weapon and it does EVERYTHING. So depending on the situation, it might end up not beign all that bad.

Also, you get to enjoy those 5 hive gangers expression of horror when you get it out.

Don't forget that a Melee attachment 'counts as a spear', and you can add an Exterminator cartridge to any weapon. So you can have a gun with an exterminator cartridge, and a melee attachment with another exterminator cartridge...

Hmm I kind of assumed the whole thing was a single weapon I mean, even if it ''counts'' as a spear, its not a spear. And its nota seperate weapon.

But I guess there aint no rule AGAINST it.

But I wouldnt allow it in my game.

Mr Adventurer said:

The weapon w/ the melee attachment "counts as a spear" not the melee attachment itself. Pretty sure that ALL of what this means is that the weapon w/ melee attachment uses the spear statline for melee combat (i.e. a rifle w/ a bayonet functions like a hafted weapon w/ a point/bade on the end, otherwise known as a spear). NOT that you suddenly have a full sized spear strapped to your gun.

The thing is that they aren't really part of the setting. I havn't read a single story where someone has a shot selector, plus my players have shown me how cheese they can be, also they dont really make sense in solid shot weapons, if you were to switch shot and fire a single shot then you would fire the same type as before as well as other mechanical issues. My attitude is that you would need to pay a master weaponsmith to build one into the weapon and since my players don't know any master weaponsmiths and havn't tried to contact one then they dont have access to them.

Thats not to say they cant buy funky stuff, the assassin has Arial Pinions which is actually a great thing to have for Fate Points they have already saved his life by malfunctioning as he droped unconcious over 20m. There are 3 things I dont really like, shot selectors, recoil gloves (because they are cheese and again ive never seen them in background) and Vanahiems but they are banned by group concent .

Kaihlik

To Kaihlic,

I'm sorry but, beign french, I dont know what in the blaze you mean by : ''Its cheese''

I think I kind of know what you're talking about but it really is nothing but a guess so I'd like to know for sure.

Actually, they are in Shadowpoint iirc; I recall at least one story which had either an astartes or an inquisitorial representative with a bolter and a shot selector. I'm fairly sure it's Shadowpoint, but it might be Farseer. Or both...

As for mechanical issues- the simplest way around them is to assume it has multiple breeches which can switch in and out, each feeding from a separate mag. It's not perfect, but it does work.

Recoil gloves are mentioned in Crossfire, btw

Sorry I tend to forget the not everyone here speaks English as a first language. By cheese I mean overpowered or at least can be used by players to be overpowered.

Actually what put me off all 3 items was the description of the single handed Vanaheim with shot selector containing every type of ammo. No I lie, having it used on me was what put me off it.

Kaihlik

Hmm I dont quite agree, I dont know if those things are in the fluff (but Alasseo seems to think they are) but none of this is broken: Its not like a special power in dnd or something like that: The bad guys can have fire selector too and recoil gloves too.

Besides, it seems silly saying that a fire selector makes noi sense then accepting : exagramic wards, bolters, power armor, psy powers and the warp

Its 40k man
The orks guns work because they WANT them to
Its not supposed to be possible in our world.

Meh to me, while they might exist in background, they are as very rare items available to a few people or are made to commision (I dont really care about the rarity values this is my opinion and my game so thats how it goes). My players may get them later on but as things stand they dont have access to them. If I feel they are apropriate then I will put them in but it wont be till later on in the game.

Kaihlik

Im going to have to go home and find out how much that weighs. It seems like you would need 50 str just to hold it, let alone aim it without a brace.

6.5 Base gun (with no amelioration but already includes the shotgun and the 3 different ammo types fire selector)
2.5 aux. Grenade launcher
1 Exterminator
2 Melee
0 Mono

12 total

And for the heck of it

0.5 Silencer (for the autogun part)

1 Scope
1.5 Targeter

15 for the whole thing (and some added fun-stuff)

Heavier than most guns
Still way lighter than Heavy-class weapon (heavy stubber is 35)
If you have Strenght 40 and agility 35 I even allow tap dancing

Kaihlik said:

In my games only a guardsman from a forge world is allowed to have a Vanaheim, or special mitigating circumstances. Otherwise the characters get asked when they meet a Tech Adept where they got the weapon. If they don't give the correct answer... They ask for the weapon in order to give it back to the proper persons. Encounter ensues.

SlimeTheGreat said:

Mr Adventurer said:

Can't use the upgrades in a single shot, not can't have them on the same weapon.

Ah, good b:) I always thought that rule seemed a bit silly :/

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

What are you on about? There is nothing anywhere that I can find in the targeters entry that says it can't be used in single shot or that it is actually a sight, which is what would limit to one per weapon. Furthermore the scope if we are talking about a Telescopic Sight, can very well be used in fully automatic mode, you just need to spend a full action aiming first, which by the way would make one hell of a bonus +40 by that time.

For assistance, Targeter is one page 179 of the Inquisitors handbook, Telescopic sight on page 142 and full aim action on page 192. I looked in the most recent errata as well, but I might have missed something, if you can explain how you came to this conclusion I would be very interested.