Huh? Oh no, they are just the perfect sniper powers, making it so you can pretty much get in anywhere to set up, and act as your own spotter with far sight and awareness.

I was able to keep up camo and pre. awareness together for most of my last game, and used invocation if I really needed another power for a turn.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

At last, a foe worth killing...

Dezmond said:

Too bad you play in a system that means you'll get your arse kicked. And haven't figured out a way to play something else.

To NO-1:

Suitably brutal I'll admit, but I'm not sure why you would ever throw that at your party. Unless that is you want to kill them all, which that thing would most certainly do.

Only if the party is not aware of the attack. This thing can be dropped by a good equiped 4 man team.

Schwarzie said:

So 1 Mp Lascannon?

I would go fo a 4 man Team and EACH has a MP Lascannon And blessed Powercells.

I never said it would be easy, only that i can be done by something lesser than the 40K Paladins.

Actually, if I'm reading this right, it can't be killed by anythign other than a small army of GK Terminators...

It has Unnatural Toughness, increasing its TB to 20, but the Daemonic Trait would double this to 40 against any non-psychic/holy attack. Unless thats a typo, that Bloodthirster is hideously powerful...I like it

Edit to the above, sorry...it starts with a TB of 5, Unnatural Toughness x3 takes that to 15, then Daemonic takes that to 30. Even so, with its armour as well, thats a lot of dmage reduction

user4574 said:

Actually that depends entirely on how stacking Unnat. T and Daemonic works. In every example I've seen explained in the rules, stacking multipliers just bumps up the level of the muttiplier rather than doubling it. They are cumulative but not multiplicative of one another.

What I mean by that is, If a creature has two different effects that give it unnatural strength (x2) this does not equal unnatural strength (x4) (i.e. 2x2) Instead it comes out to unnatural strength (x3) (i.e. 1 level of unnat. strength plus 1 more level of unnat str.)

in essence (x2) + (x2) = (x3) and (x3) + (x2) = (x4)

If Daemonic and Unnat Toughness stack the same way other multipliers do, then its Unnat T (x3) [or two levels of mutiplier] plus one level of multiplier for daemonic to equal 3 levels of multiplier, which comes out to effective TB x4, not x6

so, if like other stacked multipliers the boost is cumulative rather than mutliplicative, the result is 20 damage reduction from TB for Unnatural Toughness (x3) combined with Daemonic.

DocIII said:

That's the way I've ruled it, mainly because using Daemonic to double TB already boosted by Unnatural Toughness (particularly on high-toughness creatures like Daemons of Nurgle) makes things insane. It's not an official ruling, just personal preference.

As for "well-equipped four-man team"... that does depend on your definition of well-equipped. As was discussed on the old board, with a previous version of these stats, an Imperial Guard anti-tank squad armed with lascannons (3 lascannons, assume BS35 for moderate Imperial Guardsmen, as NPCs do not follow the same rules as PCs for ability accrual) would struggle to bring down a Bloodthirster if it started at maximum range, even assuming that the fear doesn't kick in until the last 200m or so. You do, afterall, have to hit the thing first - and at a lascannon's extreme range, even with a full aim, against a Bloodthirster flying at full speed (the Run action), you get a single shot every other turn at -10, during which time it's gotten 120m closer to killing you. Accounting for dodge chances, it might be Heavily Wounded (on 7 or fewer wounds) by the time it reaches combat, by which point the guys who were shooting it should be fleeing, wetting themselves (go on, pass a Fear test at -40) or suddenly decapitated by a large barbed whip or giant axe.

If you're in melee, you had better be extremely good and extremely well-equipped - and by well-equipped, I'm talking hexagrammic wards on terminator armour (the Bloodthirster's Axe is a Warp Weapon, but hexagrammic wards protect against that, but you'll still need 10+ AP to see the difference, as the Axe is still Pen 9), and a blessed, pentagrammic-warded force great weapon (the blessing is redundant, actually)... and you'd need to be a pretty damned powerful psyker and/or possess immense physical strength to get the best out of it even then. If you're at range, you want an artillery battery, not a heavy weapon squad.

Like I said, Grey Knight Terminators. Assuming that Terminator armour provides similar protection to Ork Mega Armour (from Creatures Anathema), you're looking at 14AP to everywhere, +30 strength and a minimum of an extra size category. Then, it seems reasonable to assume that Grey Knight elites are similarly strong and tough to Brother-Sergeant Agamorr (SB 8, TB 8, before armour, 25 wounds, assorted resilience talents) plus a Psy Rating of 3. The weapons will deal 2d10+14 R, Pen 7 against the Bloodthirster's total damage reduction of 16 (reduced from 28 by a Pen of 7 and being a blessed/psychic attack which bypasses the Daemonic trait)... a good few hits with a weapon like that (and by "a good few" I mean an average of 7 or 8) should bring it down, if it doesn't kill someone in the meantime, as it heals when killing (and, being a Bloodthirster, it'll kill often). So yeah, five Grey Knight Terminators could do it, so long as they're willing to accept a heavy casualty rate in the process (it will kill a single marine with every hit, so they have to kill it first).

Schwarzie said:

Does that scenario sound as far fetched to you as it does to me? Do people actually play DH that way? God I hope not...

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I'm kind of curious...why did you stat out a bloodthirster? I mean it's clear you put some thought into it (and it's well done to be honest), but I can't think of any game scenario where it would be appropriate (aside that is from a possible Grey Knight campaign).

because when your a Dark Heresy Gm the party is the enemy and the enemy must die

Turpin said:

That really is just a disgusting sentiment. Glad I don't play with your group.

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

Oh I wasn't being serious I forgot sarcasim dosn't work over text, it was suppose to be a joke referring to the old DnD Gm's who follow "The Old Ways" which is basically "The players are a team, that team is your enemy, this book (game masters guide) is your shield, and this book (monster guide) is your sword, together use them to slay the ENEMY!"

Turpin said:

Never mind then. I never had the misfortune of experiencing that side of rpgs. And instead of my previous statement I submit to you good sir this in reply.

Now I must go and destroy my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentation of their women.

Turpin said:

While this is true, your skill as a GM is evaluated on how inferior a foe you can use to wipe out the party. Any diceclown can waste the party with a Bloodthirster. It takes real skill to waste them with a nearsighted barman wielding a stub pistol.

Zarkhovian_Rhythm said:

It was also extremely funny:

Me: “How fast are you going then?”
The Scum: “How fast can we go?”
Me: “Well there’s a series of effective speeds; Very Slow/Slow/Cruising/Fast/Very Fast”
The Scum: Very fast
Tech Priest: Oh no….
Jamie: Does it go up to “Eleven”?

The two survivors are getting Fate Points back for their part in that little escapade.

This isn't really a crazy weapon, just more a hardass character.

Our Imperial Guardsman was introduced to the group as Chainsaw. Around his third advance scheme, we found a bunch of mono combat knives, and everyone in the group got one. This became Chainsaw's favorite weapon, until he got his power blade. Basically, he would wade into close combat and lightning strike. I was playing the psyker, and would make medicae checks to see how badly hurt he looked, which got more difficult as time went on because of the enemy blood that was coating him. If he looked bad, I'd Seal Wounds on him. If he didn't so much, I force lightining'ed his primary target. We had been attacked in the middle of the night at a noble's residence by mercs hired by our adversary. Our assassin was still suffering from the effects of shock, and pretty much holed up in his room. The scum did the same. The tech priest got shot once, then spent 6 combat rounds welding his door shut with a lascutter, then another 8 rounds cutting a hole in the wall to the adjoining room. So, it was me, the psyker, and Chainsaw the Bloodmonger fighting like 8 guys. Which we did fine with until the two-weapon wielding, lightning striking boss with two power blades showed up. I lost a leg, which regrew. Chainsaw got healed by the wall-cutting tech priest and I believe wound up cutting the guy to pieces.

The most crazy, awsome weapon we have in our group is a sorita wielding a bolter and I doubt it'll get much crazier for a while...the crazy thing is that the groups seems to use their guns on other group members more so than the people they meet and it is my characters job (a gunslinger scum) to keep them from shooting each other...how could this possibly go wrong?

We do have a needle pistol, but the sorita mostly use that to put other group members to sleep when they're to far out.

Adepta Sororitas in light power armor with a heavy bolter... Put her in an open courtyard and have the enemy charge her. Fun times

My groups commisar fired a freaking grappling gun at Assod Morirr during the ambush at Hazael's Cross. Crazy? Yes. Awesome? Well, it would have been if he had actually hit him.

Requete said:

Does having the cell's arbitrator nearly beaten unconsious in a fist-fight with a half crippled old man w/ SB 2, TB 3, WS 21 and no talents count?

Well, somebody remember Harlon Nayl´s combi granade-launcher/plasmagun from Ravenor Returned? Not the most drastic combo rule-wise, but my stormtrooper cadet has one for crises situations:)