here is what i am thinking.

the saga packs (this thread isnt about them- just thought id point out its not a duplicate thread) will be over the next 3 or so years for sure. over this time we will tread across the length of middle earth.

now heres the problem. we are having cycles during this time, im guessing 3. so how are ffg going to handle this?

what i mean is that the designers have to avoid having a cycle and a saga pack in similar areas close to each other without any crossover (or close to)

-this means that the next cycle after this one will not be eriador as we are going there in the black rider

-it also means it is unlikely to be lothlorien or the great river area as we will be going there also before the cycle is up in saga pack #2 (or close after they are finished)

-we cannt go to moria anyways as we have already been there. same with mirkwood

-i feel it is unlikely we will go to rohan as once the cycle is finished (and hence saga packs 1 and 2) we will be immediatly going there again in saga packs 3 and 4

-it would be fine to go to gondor as we wouldnt be going there until the end saga packs, but we are currently there

- mordor would be anticlimatic given we are ending there in the saga packs

so....where does this leave us? i think this points to use going to somewhere less known in middle earth. i would say harad but i feel this is too close to gondor. i would not say rhun as there is only aruond 1 sentence giving information for the designers to work with. arnor brings us back to eriador. forochel and the north is also too vague i feel

so in short here are the places i feel the saga packs or current packs will mean we wont go to

-mordor (too anticlimatic)

-rohan (will mean we end the cycle going straight there again in saga #3)

-mirkwood (been there)

-moria (been there)

-shire/bree (going there in saga #1 hence some crossover)

-gondor (there now)

-harad (to similar to gondor)

-rhun (too vague

an enigma isnt it?

hopefully they arent trying to phase out the cycles with all the saga expansions as i much prefer the monthly AP packs. I'm confident the designers can make cycles without making it too redundant with their already existing products. What i think about tho is the heroes. If every saga expansion comes with 4 new heroes, we will get almost every major character in the books. If theres cycles on top i feel like the character well will come up dry in no time at all

good points though i also am confident that cycles will contine...i see nothing to say otherwise.

my thoughts are on which location we shall visit next though, as i do not see any of the above as likely choices.

as for the heros....i think that we shall see many characters that are generic such as 'lothlorien archer', 'shire shirrif' etc.. its easy that way to avoid having to bring out the main characters which frees the minor ones as heros...therefore i predict us getting some of the minor characters as heros instead of allies.

also added to that is the made up characters, which even though id rather see real characters, i think at some point we shall have to have more. mirlonde and the others are very well done anyways

rich

I see your point, but I think the designers can construct different quests in the same locale. For example, the quest from Steward's Fear occurs at Minas Tirith, but this quest will be quite abit different from the epic siege of Minas Tirith.

The heroes are the more of problem. I can see they wanted to get a lot of the hobbit heroes out in this expansion, but I think following expansions will not follow suit. I think we will see more lesser known and FFG conceived heroes (Hirluin, Mirlonde, Eleanor, Elrohir and Elladan). There will still be major character heroes but not in such volume or density. We are also probably in store for a bunch of different sphere versions.

indeed, but again i dont think that the changing of the quests is going to help. obviously you can have 3,4,5 etc cycles all based around moria for instance, and change the quest mechanics and thats fine.

but we have never in this game had the situation where the locations themselves have overlapped in the same time of release.

if we get anything from shire to rivendell next cycle we will be overlapping with the saga packs that around coming out first. if we get anything from rohan instead then there will be a strange overlap with the end of the rohan cycle and the start of the rohan centered saga packs which must follow them almost straight after

most of the others cannot be for the reasons i stated

of course this all depends on the assumption of how the release the packs, though im confident i have the timescale correct

rich

I dont think the region of arnor would be too worn out after black riders for the next cycle. First of all by the time the next cycle is released it will likely be months after black riders comes out, plus the quests in black riders are very book focused events leaving out a lot of the geography in the north we could have adventures in. I think Rohan would be a good place for the next cycle but the region of Rohan would pretty well covered in the two towers expansions

yes, true. i cannot remember what the timescale for black rider was, but again it depends if its on scedule or not.

i would like to see arnor next perhaps most of all as its one of the best choices out of all of them.

i still feel there may be overlap, especially if there are delays, which there have been several times with these major releases.

i think rohan has even more chance of overlapping with the 3rd saga packs than somewhere with the first and second. unless i have my timings wrong (which with all the confusion of the packs being delay to europe is entirely possible) then i think that the next cycle may be ending, or near ending as saga pack #3 is released?

and if the black rider is out well before the next cycle (which i have only just realised) then there is more chance of places such as lothlorien overalapping with saga pack #2 i think?

rich

It's definitely an interesting point to consider, as the Saga Expansions will be hitting up every major area, while the minor areas probably don't get enough coverage in the books to generate card ideas and flavor text from. Eriador still seems promising as maybe we'll get a chance to explore areas that the Saga Expansions probably won't cover, like the Old Forest, Barrow-downs, maybe some of the old Arnor ruins, the Trollshaws, etc.

Naww I think Harad would still be awesome. There are so many ways to make that feel different. Maybe even go through the Harad Forest. Yes might be similar to Gondor but......different race, different place, and we don't have any quests there yet. Maybe some Grey Mountains? Or I would VERY much love some Shire quests. Maybe they could make a up a story about some secretive guy (Kinda like Stewards Fear bad guy) who is running about Shire and stuff and he has some followers and is trying to escape you or something. idk..... maybe different idea...but Shire is still open and will not be covered be Saga packs. Also one more Idea. Going on some quests WITH Elrond instead of him always sending you on the quests. they could make anything up with that.

Some of my favorite areas in the LotR MMO are ones that don't feature in the book but are an important part of Middle-Earth history (Angmar!). I'd also like to see lands that are relatively mysterious (Harad, which isn't in the MMO). I would absolutely love cycles set in those regions.

Originally the AP designs heavily imitated events in The Hobbit or the Lord of the Rings narrative, presumably because the team thought they would not be able to make quests directly based on those stories (as I understand it, they did not own the rights to make content directly based on either book, initially). Now that we have the Saga expansions on the way, and the Hobbit is in the past, future cycles are free to stop imitating and start imagining. Fancy a trip to Rhun, anyone!?

I think there are plenty of things that could be done with The Shire, Old Forest, Barrow-Downs, North Downs, Annuminas, Ered Luin, etc. that won't be covered in the Saga expansion to be interesting, thematic, and fresh.

How about a Northern Ranger cycle that involves protecting the Shire, fighting the growing darkness or goblins of the North, or something like that.

I know it sounds a bit like the some of the fan-made quests (or lotro), but these would be 'official', and I suspect that you'd like it rich.

Also I don't see why we couldn't go to Beleriand...it's just up there XD

i think it would be good if they had the cycles in the same area as the saga boxes, because then they could compliment the player cards coming out with the same races. just think how quickly we managed to build up our dwarf decks when the khazad-dum and hobbit boxes came out. they could do the same for hobbits, and then elves, and then men, in that order.

i think it might be a bit confusing if the cycles carried on with the old timeline, though (prior to the events in the main book). they should make them concurrent with events in the book. there's plenty of stuff going on around the main storyline which they could include. it would be quite cool if we could play the main story, and also take part in all the events that are happening around it.

thanks for the replies. i also think that (timing aside for a moment) there is easily enough material to work on. we know we arent going properly to the barrow downs, old forest and im guessing most places...so as has been pointed out there is those areas (which are my favourites)

rich

A couple source material errors from up above:

Elladan and Elrohir are NOT invented by FFG.
and Beleriand is not "up there" any more, it was broken and flooded at the end of the First Age.

I also really hope that APs continue and that Elves get more attention. One great location to use elves in is Mirkwood, which is not visited in the LOTR book. We could also go up to Gundabad and Angmar or into the farther east.

Also I don't see why we couldn't go to Beleriand...it's just up there XD

Yeah, more frozen waste would be fun (half sarcastically). I was thinking that Dale (and the surrounding area: iron hills, etc.) could be fun too (but maybe that would just mean more dwarfs...)

A couple source material errors from up above:

Elladan and Elrohir are NOT invented by FFG.

I think SG was just saying that they were "lesser known" (re-read the comment), not made-up (he meant Mirlonde and Eleanor). Thanks for the clarification on Beleriand.

I suppose it would be still possible to visit some 'core' locations in AP cycles, like Rivendell or Lothlorien, as nothing really takes place in them in the books that could be converted into the game. If that makes sense. Like, what would the quest be from the saga box that deals with Rivendell? Healing Frodo and deciding who would be the Ringbearer are the only two events that take place there, so I can't see how a quest could be made. However, using the location as a basis for different adventures is entirely feasible - I can't think of anything at the minute, but then I'm no game designer!

The original announcement said this about the timeframe for the box:

From Bag End, your heroes must help Frodo reach Buckland and cross at the ferry. Then, when spies cause trouble in Bree, your flight through the wilderness leads to a desperate confrontation at Weathertop. Should your heroes survive, they’ll have to race for the Ford of Bruinen and the safety of Rivendell.

So I would imagine that frees up The Shire as well, unless we can expect something that involves the Scouring in the, what, sixth saga box?

So I would imagine that frees up The Shire as well, unless we can expect something that involves the Scouring in the, what, sixth saga box?

i would love to see some sort of spy cycle in the shire area, with 'ruffians' and half orcs being the main enemy, with the dunedain keeping the borders safe. they could have some come up from sarn ford, or down from the north.

or we could have wolves as well. i would see a shire cycle mixed with a bree area cycle to open the options up for the old forest and barrow downs

So I would imagine that frees up The Shire as well, unless we can expect something that involves the Scouring in the, what, sixth saga box?

i would love to see some sort of spy cycle in the shire area, with the dunedain keeping the borders safe. they could have some come up from sarn ford, or down from the north.

You're not the only one who would love that!!

I'd love to be able to go to some of the lesser known regions. (Ice Bay of Forochel, Angmar, Harad, Esgaroth/Rhun) That would give FFG a lot of space to maneuver and make up some quests of their own liking. Of course, they'd have to make up some places, but it would let us explore areas that aren't really mentioned at all in the Lord of the Rings. haha Who'd like to see a new Lossoth deck?

I'd love to be able to go to some of the lesser known regions. (Ice Bay of Forochel, Angmar, Harad, Esgaroth/Rhun) That would give FFG a lot of space to maneuver and make up some quests of their own liking. Of course, they'd have to make up some places, but it would let us explore areas that aren't really mentioned at all in the Lord of the Rings. haha Who'd like to see a new Lossoth deck?

yes that would be good.

i always refer to LOTRO here as a good example of what im about to say, because when designers make up area, and indeed people and events, they are either amazing....or awful

i play LOTRO....not nearly enough as this game, but enough to know the areas...and what i have noticed is that the areas such as the shire, bree, rivendell were all fantastically done. this is to be expected as there is so much material to go on.

however when you get to the vague areas it is a little hit and miss. The Trollshaws, Evendim and Annuminas were beautifully done as was ered luin. the north downs and angmar i thought not so much- it appeared to much like other fantasy works and less 'tolkien'. it was so much the landscape which was inspiring, but the enemies - dragons round every corner, evil wizards leaing cults dedicated to the witch king

I think with tolkien one key element is not going over the top with the design. enemies have to be powerful but not have every other enemy being able to shoot fire out of their hands and so on....obvious stuff but its surprising how many get it wrong....ffg are doing it well so far and i see nothing to say otherwise for the future

so yes, its a good idea, but i think the designers will need to work twice has hard to make it work

rich

They could do some War in the North stuff too (not necessarily the game, but the Appendix/HoME material), if not explicitly then at least based upon it.

As a side note I'm pleased to see folks throwing around so many great ideas, it really shows the interest of the fans and the generally good community we have going on here.

They could do some War in the North stuff too (not necessarily the game, but the Appendix/HoME material), if not explicitly then at least based upon it.

As a side note I'm pleased to see folks throwing around so many great ideas, it really shows the interest of the fans and the generally good community we have going on here.

indeed! i think it shows just how much potential this game still has that we are still discussing new ideas after 2 1/2 years...not that the game is very old, but i feel we are just scratching the surface

i would love to see some of the unfinished tales and appendices material. imagine glorfindel confronting the witch king at fornost?

That would be epic. Also, I was thinking of the LOTRO Forochel when I was talking about that too! haha. The designers did do a good job on some of the landscapes in that game, but like you said, Angmar is horrible. And I absolutely LOVE the Unfinished Tales. It has so much information on everything. I would also love to see a "Hunt for the Blue Wizards" type of scenario. But there's so little information on them too. Looks like we need a little dark magic from Sauron to bring Tolkien back from the dead, just so he can answer all of these darn questions.