Hmm.. Kinda like that idea. Though it may be overpowered. Especially when combined with something like Risk Some Light, and you could make sure you were safe. Though pretty nice stat selection. I would probably bump his hit points to 4... He seems a bit fragile.

yes, probably he would be discarded instead of exhausted then. as for the hitpoints i thought id leave extra for gandalf the white

Oddly, I would MUCH rather see Gandalf as an "objective-ally" than as a hero. Especially if his stats are going to be reduced over his current ally versions! I really like the feel of both current versions of him... really fits the theme of him coming and going, and showing up just at the right time in the storyline.

So, if I can't have a hero version of Gandalf that CLEARLY outdoes his ally versions, I'll just be happy to use him with my Sneak Attacks or pay some threat to keep him on the table... Actually, perhaps that's the key. We already have a version of him that can quest AND defend/attack all on the same turn, and we can keep indefinitely on the table by raising threat. I mean, really, what would be the only advantage to having a Gandalf hero then? The resource generation? I can get that with another cheap hero AND have my 4/4/4/4 Gandalf ally out there creating mayhem for multiple turns...

So, my suggestion would be then to keep his stats, and giving him a huge starting threat to compensate for it, with a truly epic ability (still based on Rich's concept, which I like)... but this ability needs to be potent! Both because... well, he's friggin Gandalf!... and also because it needs to be worth it to sacrifice someone you paid so much threat to have as a hero.

Gandalf

17 threat

4 willpower

4 attack

4 defense

4 hitpoints

Action: Exhaust Gandalf to engage all enemies in play.

Action: Discard Gandalf to discard all enemies currently engaged with you.

Or perhaps start him off with a lower threat, like 12 or 13, and include:

Each time Gandalf exhausts to commit to a quest, defend, or attack, the first player raises their threat by 1.

(basically giving him the Glorfindel penalty, only more potent)

Action: Exhaust Gandalf to engage all enemies in play.

Action: Discard Gandalf to discard all enemies currently engaged with you.

that is potent! i could see people just using thicket of spears until you have about 15 enemies, then BAM! the grey wizard kills them all.

i think he would need your second idea as well, with the threat increase for each thing he does

i wonder what gandalf the white would do- remember you have to leave room for him!

Hmmmm... hadn't thought about the ToS combo... and not to mention his ability would be even more potent in a multiplayer game. Pulling in all the enemies from each player with his first ability, then discarding them all. Still you would be losing your best hero (in terms of stats) to do so... perhaps an additional cost to activate the second ability:

Action: Discard Gandalf to discard any number of enemies currently engaged with you. Raise your threat by the number of enemies discarded in this manner. You may spread the total threat gain amongst all active players.

So, let's say it WAS 15 enemies. You gain the phenomenal ability to pull them all in, discard them (or fewer of them, if you choose to), but then have to distribute 15 total threat amongst the "active" players left (in case someone had been killed off in a multiplayer game)... (and I'm sure there would be a better way to word the whole mechanic... just was thining off the top of my head)...

i wonder what gandalf the white would do- remember you have to leave room for him!

Oh, he would definitely be amazing. But I wouldn't see him having anywhere near the same "sacrifice" mechanic that a Grey version had... probably better starts and higher threat with a completely different ability/penalty...

I supose that we will follow the story of Sam and Frodo and leave anything else out. It would be strange to see Frodo fighting in Pelannor field or Isengard.

Many Saga quest related special effect cards are most likely payed via "frodo" tokens, so they don't brake any game balanse in normal gamin environment.

If the Lotr saga is following Frodo and Sam, we have:

The way to the Rivendel (including Barrow downs), From rivendel to Moria and there to Lorien and From Lorien to rauros, then Ithilien and Finally to Mordor... Hard to say how many Saga expansion we get from that. Anything from 2 to 4 are guite possible.

Hannibal, you raise an interesting point. Since Frodo will no longer be the "extra" hero as it were for some of the saga expansions, this may pave the way for Gandalf the White to take his place as the "+1" to the hero party. A new Saga only version of Aragorn may also be possible and more true to the story.

That is of course if they do not combine Frodo/Sam quests with quests like Pelannor Fields or Isengard in Saga Expansions.

I supose that we will follow the story of Sam and Frodo and leave anything else out. It would be strange to see Frodo fighting in Pelannor field or Isengard.

Many Saga quest related special effect cards are most likely payed via "frodo" tokens, so they don't brake any game balanse in normal gamin environment.

If the Lotr saga is following Frodo and Sam, we have:

The way to the Rivendel (including Barrow downs), From rivendel to Moria and there to Lorien and From Lorien to rauros, then Ithilien and Finally to Mordor... Hard to say how many Saga expansion we get from that. Anything from 2 to 4 are guite possible.

i would be very dissapointed indeed if that happens. i agree with your point though- frodo cannot possibly be the 4th hero after the breaking, unless we follow just him.

how this would mean that we would have no need at all for the rest of the fellowship- it would be just as strange if all 9 walkers went all the way to mordor.

therefore it would be having at most 1 saga pack (the one after black rider) where it would make sense to use gimli, legolas and boromir, and after as for the merry and pippin, they would only really make sense in packs 1 and 2

i really think they shall split the packs between the 6 books as i said previously. the quests i think will be split between the groups, but that would mean changing the quest amounts in different packs

there are 3 in black rider, that we know

there can be 3 in pack 2 becuase the fellowship are together

pack three sees things get more complicated but i guess to simplyfy things we could see frodo and sam as 1/2 quests and the 3 hunters, merry and pippin as the other 1 or 2 quests

after that things get even more complicated. we have frodo and sam still, but we also have the hunters going through the paths of the dead, merry is with rohan, pippin with gondor.....

its complicated, but i think the designers would be doing a terrible thing if they left 50% of the tale of lotr out, which to follow frodo only they would have to do

rich

The quest log in the 2nd most recent article all but confirms they'll be six boxes. They're obviously going to cover the entirety of The Lord of the rings, how they do this we'll just have to wait and find out. I do like the idea of Samwise's idea of a Gandalf hero that would be used when not on a frodo quest.... We'll see obviously FFG will have something creative in store for us

They might get around it by having Gandalf the White as a hero.

Allowing his grey cards to still be played to simulate his greater involvement during the War of the Ring.

i'm sure its been discussed at length elsewhere but i'd be surprised if they ever have Gandalf/Gandalf the White as a hero. He'd have to be incredibly strong, stronger than his already mighty "grey" counter part but not so strong that he'd break the game. And what sphere? colorless? He'd be in everyones deck! Using 1 sphere, 2 spheres, 3 spheres, all 4 spheres? no problem! Throw a steward of gondor on the wizard and you can pay for anything regardless of what other heroes you're using. It would be a game designer's nightmare. Plus all of your friends would be PO'd that either 1) they cant run their gandalf deck or 2) they cant run their gandalf allies

Well I surmise that yes, he would be rather powerful

His threat level would probably be up near 20 to be honest

Off the cuff he may well be a neutral hero. The first ever! But able to use his resources to power events from any sphere. Much like Elrond can gather allies.

And as I suggested his unique name being 'Gandalf the White' would leave other players decks unmolested.

Frodo clearly won't be the bonus hero every time it says that the saga expansions will follow other heroes and other parts of the books. (edit: I happen to hope that non-frodo/ring bearer parts however, don't get a bonus hero at all - bonus Gandalf the white might work, but I'd rather use regular Aragorn thanks all the same)

The only real question for me is; will they release everything in a linear order or will they choose another thematic order?

(For instance, they could release all the frodo parts first, then go back and fill in the rest, or they may approach the releases in order of the books more obviously).

I think They're definitely going to follow the books to begin with Booored so I don't think you're going to get what you want (bits exploring underused topics such as Faramir and the rangers) until some time in the future.

I think they'll eventually release everything though. I do hope we eventually get parts that have currently been missed (the old forest, barrow downs and the elves of mirkwood sections for instance).

I do however think that making only 6 saga expansions (18 quests) out of the lord of the rings would be like saying, hey lets not use all the source material and therefore make less money. It's pretty guaranteed that every saga expansion will sell.

It's just a case of asking what order they do them in, not how many. With all the side bits and bits that can inspire without directly occurring in the books, there's easily 100 + quests in the whole of the lord of the rings, and many hundreds if they get to count the appendix.

Basically I think we'll be getting saga expansions for Lord of the Rings (and possibly one to give us the missing hobbit sections, I recon 3 more quests would complete the hobbit anyhow, it's very short), up until they get rights to a new book (Silmarilian, maybe the new children of hurin, unfinished tales perhaps).

Which isn't to say that the other expansions should cease, the deluxe expansions and original stories (especially the stewards fear; which is just made up but definitely a good story for the world) have a place in this game also. I think that adventure cycles will be phased out eventually though - as far as quest design goes I think they're much more limited in what they can do (adding only 1 additional deck to ones released in the last deluxe expansion each time I mean).

The Saga Expansions are not meant to be "the books" or w/e. We will defiantly see some major plot lines from the books in them, but they are not going to be telling the story of the books. They are just set in the books and focus on a "part" of the book. For example The Battle of Helms Deep would make a great Saga expansion. An entire series that just tells this one battle, 6 interconnected quests. Stuff like that... or we could see a Saga Expantion on Fairimer defending Henneth Annûn for example... something only mentioned in the books.

I agree with Rapier about tou on this, I don't think that's exactly what the Sagas are about, although I think we may see, for example, a Siege of Gondor saga expansion or even one for every battle but that's that.

I think that the Saga expansions are what this game should always have been. When most people talk to me about this game what they are looking for is a quest orientated game dripping in theme. The Saga expansions seam to be FFG trying to pull the game back towards this by allowing special rules that esist only for that expansion, allowing them to make much more interesting and thematic quests as they are not bound by the general rules of the main game.

However, I totally agree with this. Alternate untold storylines is incredibly cool I agre, but they should not be entirely the main focus of this game.

As for how many? I think we will see 2-4 a year every year this game is out.

Yup, I think that too.

Basically I think we'll be getting saga expansions for Lord of the Rings (and possibly one to give us the missing hobbit sections, I recon 3 more quests would complete the hobbit anyhow, it's very short), up until they get rights to a new book (Silmarilian, maybe the new children of hurin, unfinished tales perhaps).

Lol I think this is a little bit ambitious, if they could have access to this material I'm sure they would have already started delving into it.

They might get access too it if they keep making lots of money. but probably not.

I would absolutely love it, but I don't think it'll happen considering lord of the rings card games have lost a lot of their reputation being there so many.This game is amazing and all but it's hardly a revolutionary idea. The only games that i think had a real opportunity (or still have it) to reach that material are Middle-Earth ccg and LOTRO.