Except, as the continuity itself has shown, there were a large number of Force users who did just stop using their powers, and forgot how to use the Force.

Also, the specialisation says nothing about the FSEs being survivors of Order 66 - it actually says that the Emperor, and those forces engaged in Order 66, were too busy tracking down true Jedi and their descendants and allies, and that Force Sensitives still exist on the fringes of space. It actively implies that FSEs aren't, and never have been, Jedi.

Well, I see where you're coming from, but the text n the FSE description is pretty ambiguous.

"The FSE is not just any Force sensitive being; he is one who survived the purges. He may have been a young Padawan or even a minor Jedi who managed to flee (...)" (pg. 276, last paragraph) at least hints at my reading. Which is not to say that your way of reading it is wrong.

Nevertheless the rules speak for themselves and I like the reduced power level that comes with them.

As far as the reference to the EU ... meh, my Star Wars consists of 2 trilogies and a TV series. Maybe the odd computer game.

But your mileage may vary.

However, purely by the fact that you do not have to start as being a Force Sensitive, and can buy it at any time, shows that people could potentially not know they are Force Sensitive to begin with, and learn that over time. If they didn't know they were force sensitive, they couldn't have been Jedi, padawans, etc, during Order 66.

Remember that the setting in the book is set around the Age of Rebellion, 18 or so years after the Empire was born, and 18 years after the Jedi Purge began. It's entirely possible for a character in an EotE game to have not been born at that that time, say a 14 year old Twi'lek, or whatever, and for them to be a Force Sensitive.

Thing is, if you take FSE as a starting specialisation you have no career and no career skills, no freebies. And buying into any other specialisation is going to be considered non-career, thus more expensive.

Consider the fluff you refer to, it would be reasonable to assume - in my opinion - that over the last two decades or so the character has been getting by as a Pilot (following your own example), most likely not using much force powers or skills during this time due to the Purge and all. This means that skills in force use has deteriorated. For all intents and purposes this means that his career is as a Pilot, now when the character is starting his adventuring with a group and stuff, picking up the FSE specialisation will cost some xp - where's the problem with that? He could have been force sensitive all along, but this will mean he has less experience to put in other stuff.

I just think you put way too much emphasis on a piece of fluff text. If the character was a young padawan, a child or whatever, he would have been laying low not overtly showing off force powers and skill, or s/he'd be dead by now, or in the Empire's service...

Easy enough to make FSE a viable starting profession equal to the others.

Certainly, you could have a character born after the purges occurred, hence the "child hidden by friends and family." Which I guess is the type of character that is in the RAW. However, even in the description of FSE you have the possibility to have been a padawan near the end of his training, or even a freshly minted Jedi (ie with little experience) at the time of the 66 Purge. By mentioning them in the description the writers make them a viable option. And a Jedi (Padawan or minor jedi) would not have had access to other professions then the training offered at the Temple.

When I first heard about how FFG was running the Force type characters I, too, thought they would be born after the fal of the Republic, but what has been published in the book doesn't stand up to that premise. Instead the intimae that you can make either in the body of the work. Then they do a switch back in the mechanics and reverse everything.

In my mind what needs to be done now is; 1) Remove mention that the FSE characters could have been Jedi trained and escaped when the Purges started and say that all FSE were born afterward and that the Force manifested it self later in life (ie like Luke). 2) Change the FSE template so that it can be taken as a full profession from Character Generation.

The necessity of removing a piece of fluff text because of a restricted interpretation of it seems overly drastic and unnecessary. I have no trouble with the wording as is, because it dictates nothing nor does it contradict the premises for the game or what they promised and said about FSE for EotE.

In the two decades since the order 66 was given, any padawan or jedi would have had to learn new skills and abilities to get by. As I alluded to above, and as has been alluded to elsewhere (i.e. not my idea), force powers and skills deteriorate over time when not in use.

Although, if you want to make a new career out of this one specialisation go ahead, I won't stop you or argue against it, forays into this areas has already been made though so there's already stuff out there. Here and here.

Certainly, you could have a character born after the purges occurred, hence the "child hidden by friends and family." Which I guess is the type of character that is in the RAW. However, even in the description of FSE you have the possibility to have been a padawan near the end of his training, or even a freshly minted Jedi (ie with little experience) at the time of the 66 Purge. By mentioning them in the description the writers make them a viable option. And a Jedi (Padawan or minor jedi) would not have had access to other professions then the training offered at the Temple.

When I first heard about how FFG was running the Force type characters I, too, thought they would be born after the fall of the Republic, but what has been published in the book doesn't stand up to that premise. Instead the say that you can make either in the body of the work. Then they do a switch back in the mechanics and reverse everything.

In my mind what needs to be done now is; 1) Remove mention that the FSE characters could have been Jedi trained and escaped when the Purges started and say that all FSE were born afterward and that the Force manifested it self later in life (ie like Luke). 2) Change the FSE template so that it can be taken as a full profession from Character Generation.

Actually unless I'm wrong my understanding is as follows: Let's say I create my brand new character and take Bounty Hunter as my starting profession. Then I take Assassination as my free spec that comes with me taking BH. I can then spend some of my character creation xp (grab some Obligation here) to purchase a 2nd. spec. I use this to buy the Force Sensitive Exile spec. I now have the skills from BH and FSE as career skills and I still get my free ranks in some of the BH skills due to me taking that career.

So I get to start with a career with some skill points in some of the associated skills in Assassination and those skills as career skills AND I get FSE with those skills as career skills as well.

Correct?

Thing is, if you take FSE as a starting specialisation you have no career and no career skills, no freebies. And buying into any other specialisation is going to be considered non-career, thus more expensive.

Consider the fluff you refer to, it would be reasonable to assume - in my opinion - that over the last two decades or so the character has been getting by as a Pilot (following your own example), most likely not using much force powers or skills during this time due to the Purge and all. This means that skills in force use has deteriorated. For all intents and purposes this means that his career is as a Pilot, now when the character is starting his adventuring with a group and stuff, picking up the FSE specialisation will cost some xp - where's the problem with that? He could have been force sensitive all along, but this will mean he has less experience to put in other stuff.

I just think you put way too much emphasis on a piece of fluff text. If the character was a young padawan, a child or whatever, he would have been laying low not overtly showing off force powers and skill, or s/he'd be dead by now, or in the Empire's service...

Yes that is correct, except FSE has no career skills, it provides only Force Rating 1.

"

Actually unless I'm wrong my understanding is as follows: Let's say I create my brand new character and take Bounty Hunter as my starting profession. Then I take Assassination as my free spec that comes with me taking BH. I can then spend some of my character creation xp (grab some Obligation here) to purchase a 2nd. spec. I use this to buy the Force Sensitive Exile spec. I now have the skills from BH and FSE as career skills and I still get my free ranks in some of the BH skills due to me taking that career.

So I get to start with a career with some skill points in some of the associated skills in Assassination and those skills as career skills AND I get FSE with those skills as career skills as well.

Correct?"

AFAIK, you are correct.

How does one delete a post?

^{"The necessity of removing a piece of fluff text because of a restricted interpretation of it seems overly drastic and unnecessary."}

^{Not really, when it can clear up confusion like this.}

^{"In the two decades since the order 66 was given, any padawan or jedi would have had to learn new skills and abilities to get by. As I alluded to above, and as has been alluded to elsewhere (i.e. not my idea), force powers and skills deteriorate over time when not in use."}

^{Agreed, but the profession RAW are assuming you grew up and received training in being a doctor (as part of the Colonist profession.) Now, if what the writers are trying to say is that a FS character manifests his powers later in life then buying the FSE with experience after the game starts works just fine. However, if you have someone playing a PC that has him/her being a Padawan (a concept the book also supports) at the time of The Purge then it does not work, as the Temple Training would be his profession then the other profession he picks up to "get by" in the interim 18 years would be purchased as a new profession (ie FSE-Smuggler-Pilot).}

^{As things go I have no problem with the RAW, I've been gaming for a long time and know when to and not to house rule something. But, the way things are worded right now in regards to the FSE could be confusing to new gamers. That is all I am saying that a small edit in an errata in the future might be warranted...I am certainly, not demanding it be done by any means.}

Oops! You are correct. Specs don't have career skills, duh! My bad, lol.

Yes that is correct, except FSE has no career skills, it provides only Force Rating 1.

Oops! You are correct. Specs don't have career skills, duh! My bad, lol.

Yes that is correct, except FSE has no career skills, it provides only Force Rating 1.

Specifications do have career skills, it's just that Force Sensitive doesn't, you only get Force Rating 1 from it.

Which came first, the Force or the career? During character creation none of that matters. You pick the careers and specs to describe your character and fill in the background for how he got there. Any skills a former padawan picked up can be culled from their current profession. Beyond that the Force Exile spec gives them the access to the Force talents and powers to complete the character. It doesn't matter in what order you get these things in character creation as all that matters is the finalized character.

I wish I had your eloquence mouthymerc I've been trying to make that exact point.

I think you are misunderstanding me. What I was comparing was simply taking the FSE spec AT character creation vs. taking it later AFTER character creation during the campaign.

Which came first, the Force or the career? During character creation none of that matters. You pick the careers and specs to describe your character and fill in the background for how he got there. Any skills a former padawan picked up can be culled from their current profession. Beyond that the Force Exile spec gives them the access to the Force talents and powers to complete the character. It doesn't matter in what order you get these things in character creation as all that matters is the finalized character.

I think mouthymerc is replying to Legate71.

My original idea for a campaign was as follows. My local group played the entire Dawn of Defiance campaign for Star Wars Saga Edition a few years back. It takes your characters from 1-20, max level, in an epic campaign. I played a Jedi and at the end of the campaign he was a Jedi Master. That particular campaign takes place during the rise of the empire era.

I am considering for this campaign set in the rebellion era to have my starting character be the progeny of my Saga Edition Jedi Master. Either a padawan to him or perhaps even his son so I was considering taking Force Sensitive Exile right off the bat.

What would you all do? Take it at character creation or later into the campaign?

I think mouthymerc is replying to Legate71.

Yes my comments were in response to Legate71's posts. Thank you.

What would you all do? Take it at character creation or later into the campaign?

Personally I would take it right off. A few questions, though. Was he raised away from the (father/mother)? Was he instructed in any way? Does he have a lightsaber?

I think that the Age of Rebellion will contain, at minimum, some sort of Jedi Initiate spec, if not career. We will, in all likelihood, see the lightsaber skill unfolded. So your character can progress, as has been stated by the developers, from someone with little skill and knowledge of the Force and Jedi into the basics of it. Force & Destiny, I'm sure, will contain full-blown careers and specs to finalize your character.

Once all three core books are out you will be able to mix and match to your hearts content, creating characters from the beginning with Jedi careers.

I envision him as being trained by his father at the end of the rise of the empire era and maybe he inherited a lightsaber from his father as a result but is going to have to do a lot of learning to use it. I know there is no default lightsaber skill but that the GM has the ability to allow for its use for FSE characters. Would I then treat it as a class skill basically or will it always be a non-class skill?

I would probably work the story like his father the Jedi Master sacrificed himself toward the beginning of the galactic empire at the end of the rise of the empire era and left his son with a basic lightsaber and a holocron his father had made previously that the son will use for subsequent training.

Sorry! I had assumed you were talking to me.

I think mouthymerc is replying to Legate71.

Yes my comments were in response to Legate71's posts. Thank you.

Which came first, the Force or the career? During character creation none of that matters. You pick the careers and specs to describe your character and fill in the background for how he got there. Any skills a former padawan picked up can be culled from their current profession. Beyond that the Force Exile spec gives them the access to the Force talents and powers to complete the character. It doesn't matter in what order you get these things in character creation as all that matters is the finalized character.

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I feel the RAW lean toward a more structured career progression then the mish-mash of experiences you are suggesting. But, whatever works.

This certainly has given me something to think about before preparing the proposal for Edge of the Empire to my group.

Sorry! I had assumed you were talking to me.

NP. Someone can take the FSE spec whenever they think it is appropriate. You can always describe yourself as sensitive to the Force, but you just don't realize your potential till later on.

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I feel the RAW lean toward a more structured career progression then the mish-mash of experiences you are suggesting. But, whatever works.

The RAW gives you the ability to create a character, a snapshot of how they are at the start of the game. The background and how you got to that point is completely up to you.

Hmm, I may be wrong, but I feel the RAW lean toward a more structured career progression then the mish-mash of experiences you are suggesting. But, whatever works.

The RAW gives you the ability to create a character, a snapshot of how they are at the start of the game. The background and how you got to that point is completely up to you.

Um, no.

What does the increased cost for buying a second (plus) Profession? It represents the difficulty of learning a second job while working another, basically. So, by definition in the RAW your character would be a Smuggler first then an FSE. Which as I have mentioned before if the intention was to only be able to create a character who manifests Force abilities later life then the system works. But, it breaks down when you want a character to be a jedi type first, then a back up occupation. If it worked the way you are thinking then the FSE would be a basic profession template available from the start. The "snapshot" concept just doesn't stand up here.

All I am asking for is a little clarification...If the system is geared only to creating characters in which "The Force is strong" well after the Purge then there really should not be any mention in the description of the Jedi being a possible character background. If the system is geared toward also making characters who did survive the Purge then the FSE template should be available from the start. Which is it? Because the system supports the former concept, while the body of the book supports both, but you can't make that type using the system AW.

You're way too hung up in irrelevant minutiae of a piece of fluff text, or you narrow interpretation of it and what you believe is "consequences" of this.

When you make a starting character there is no need for him or her to first be a smuggler/pilot chronologically in your background, there is nothing that says this really. You have a bit of starting xp and you build a character concept out of that, whatever comes first of your pilot or FSE spec doesn't really matter to the story of the character, the background or anything. As I said earlier, over the last few decades the character would've had to learn a new trade to get by. That the smuggler/pilot is the freebie career and spec you get shouldn't be a problem, it isn't a problem and I wonder why you continue to make it a problem?

The system supports both concept equally, except if you for some reason view the order you can pick something up at character creation to be defining and determining for your characters consciousness and identity - which it doesn't and shouldn't. I mean, if you find a problem with the order you can take these in, then heck, why do I have to pick skills after career and specialisation? Does this mean I'm skill-less before I've decided on a career? What if I went to some college or have a fine education before I started to travel the space lanes, the system doesn't support this notion either going by your reasoning, but the system does support this, because the order in which you pick up these things doesn't have such far reaching consequences and effects on your character as you try to construct.

Um, no.

Uhm yes. The order you pick and choose things have absolutely no bearing on the resultant character. Even if they had a career for Force-use and you could choose it first, at the end of character creation you would have pretty much the same thing as you would have now. Different paths to the same result. But the developers didn't want a career dedicated to the Force in this book. So you got the FSE spec which you must purchase after your chosen career. It doesn't stop you from describing your character as a former Jedi Initiate who went into hiding right after Order 66. But it does stop people from creating dedicated Force-user right off which is something they felt was not wanted at this time.

What does the increased cost for buying a second (plus) Profession? It represents the difficulty of learning a second job while working another, basically. So, by definition in the RAW your character would be a Smuggler first then an FSE. Which as I have mentioned before if the intention was to only be able to create a character who manifests Force abilities later life then the system works. But, it breaks down when you want a character to be a jedi type first, then a back up occupation. If it worked the way you are thinking then the FSE would be a basic profession template available from the start. The "snapshot" concept just doesn't stand up here.

The only thing the increasing cost is there for is as a control. The same way talents increase in cost as you move down the trees (or stats as you buy a higher one), buying new specs increase in cost to control character creation. It is a mechanical device to help with character creation and improvement.