vs.

Every couple of days I will start a debate on some stuff in the game (like item vs. item, investigator vs. investigator, etc.) And for the first debate: What weapon do you consider more powerful? The Shotgun or the Tommy Gun? And don't say they're equal, treat it as if you have a choice and you have to keep one of these weapons for a (random) investigator before you know what investigator. Okay, so here's my take: In my opinion, they're pretty equal in power level, but Tommy Gun is better for characters with low fight skill (0-3) because combat modifiers eat less from it. On a character with good fight skill (1-4 or more) I think Shotgun is better, as those 6's could realy save your life and it's the only weapon in the game were you can roll one die for the combat check and hope to defeat a monster with 2 toughness. Now if I would know that my investigator's fight would be 0-3 I would choose Tommy Gun instantly, because I like to set my skill slider on highest will and some monsters would only leave me with 1 or 2 dice for the combat check and it's too much of a risk to count on 6's. However if I didn't know what investigator I will get I will choose the Shotgun, as there's more chance I will get a 1-4, 2-5 or 3-6 fight investigators than a 0-3. So in conclusin, the Shotgun is the overall better weapon in my opinion. What do you think?

I've always had a weak spot for the Shotgun, personally. Tommy Gun can't do ANYTHING about a Color out of Space. At least using a Shotgun gives you a fighting chance.

If final battle came up and I had a Shotgun and a Tommygun to go around, I'd look to get the Shotgun to the character who would be rolling the most dice, in order to maximize the double-6s effect. Tommygun could just as well go to anyone, as in its case more dice to roll just means more dice.

I personally once played a 2-player game, we got to final battle, 2 doom tokens were left, one player was devoured and if I hadn't win this round i'd be devoured before the next, had a shotgun, rolled a 6.

Oh, one thing I forgot to say about the shotgun: It's the perfect weapon for cursed players, as the 5's you'll roll from the extra dice tommy gun gives you won't matter anyway.

Yep, Tommygun is better for monsters with lower toughness. Shotgun is better with monsters with more than one toughness, and physical resistance, so the 6s are the point of emphasis.

And shotguns are better for shooting yourself in the face with. You know. After you see the horrors ;')

Avi_dreader said:

Hopefully your shot to the face will get your buddies cowering at the back too...the perfect mercy killer for your big Apocalyptic occasion.

I'm glad most of us agree shot gun is the best...its like a free blessing with extra dice for physical.

Anyone thinks Tommy Gun is better or shall we move on to the next debate?

How do you justify taking the 6’s score double attribute of the shotgun and turning it against a monster that is completely invulnerable to physical weapons? Anything that the shotgun brings to combat is surely useless in the face of a physically immune monster like the colour out of space wouldn’t you think?

It's completely open and shut statistically. The shotgun gives you 2 less dice but gives you an extra 1/6 of a hit per die. If the number of hits you are looking for is large enough that you can consider the booms and busts of a shotgun to be a wash (for example, fightig the Great Old One), then the Shotgun is superior if you are rolling more than 4 dice after combat modifiers. Since the Shotgun provides four dice, the rubric is extremely simple:

• If your Fight is less than the Monster's Combat Modifier, the Tommy Gun is superior.
• If your Fight is more than the Monster's Combat Modifier, the Shotgun is superior.
• If your Fight is equal to the Monster's Combat Modifier, it doesn't matter.

Special bonus: The Shotgun is generally superior against enemies with Physical Resistance or Immunity, and the Tommy Gun is generally superior against enemies with only 1 or 2 toughness because its results are more reliable. The first concern generally trumps the second unless the enemy has only 1 Toughness.

So yeah, that's literally everything you can say about when you want one or the other. Obviously, if you're going to spend a lot of clues against the Ancient One in the final fight, you're better off with the Shotgun. But that's usually an edge case.

-Frank

Frank said:

Nice analysis and all, but if you had to choose between the shotgun and the tommy gun for a random investigator, which weapon would you choose?

sulphurea said:

I don't know how you justify it, but them's the rules. Immunity/Resistance ONLY affects your combat bonus.

Maybe the Color is harmed negligibly by the other weapons, but it just can't stand up to a facefull of buck shot.

Frank:

You forgot the Grapple skill. Makes the shotgun a true force to reckon with.

Tibs said:

How so?

If you want to get technical, like how the Shotgun provides its double 6s power against Physical Immune monsters, we have to get back to the point where in fact the Shotgun does not double the results of any sevens, it only gives extra hits for sixes. The bonus for Grapple is not optional. Grapple actually benefits the Tommy Gun more than it benefits the Shotgun, as does a blessing. If you have either, than the extra two dice provided by the Tommy Gun are worth an average of 6/6 of a hit instead of 4/6 of a hit. So the +1/6 of a hit per die from the shotgun only pays off when your total dice pool is more than 6 dice after the shotgun is in the house. If you are blessed and have Grapple, the dice from the Tommy Gun are worth an average of 8/6 of a hit, so you need to be rolling more than 8 dice with the shotgun to make it superior to the tommy gun.

-Frank

Frank said:

The base game's rules say:

"Each die result of 5 or 6 counts as one success"

They do not say that a success is a 5 or higher. So 6s must become 6s with the Grapple skill, or else the Grapple skill does not offer any benefit at all.

Thoughts, anyone?

Frank said:

.......................Sevens? Seriously?

Waaaaait...Nyarlathotep, is that you?

Ruvion said:

Hee heee heee BFSG....

Seeing as the dice go up to six and monsters don't use them sevens do not exist. Therefore six is the highest you can go and can't be increased higher.

That's right, fear my technicality!

Tibs said:

I'm going to post this in the F.A.Q.

I've never fully analyzed it, but I'd always take the shotgun over the tommy gun if I had to pick one. If only, because there's plenty of items that add to your combat checks but don't do anything else.

This is a tough one! I like both, but will take the Shotgun, as I am likely to give it to someone with high Combat scores who can leverage the odds of capitalizing on the 6's. There's no better feeling than rolling 6's with the shotgun, man.