I would like to point out that Call the Ancient One is a Black Goat card, and Elder Thing Crystal is a Kingsport card, and it has been proven time and again that something like this will ALWAYS happen whenever AH expansions are mixed together without a FAQ. I kinda think that FFG just doesn't thoroughly playtest each expansion all piled together with the others, and with good reason: the time they would need to do that would be prohibitive.

Then I would like someone to show me where paying the Sanity cost for a Spell and rolling the Spell Check is not interrupted by GOING INSANE and immediately tossing yourself into a padded cell.

jgt7771 said:

That's all well and fine, but the core issue is the poorly designed spell itself (because a -12 modifier can still be cast with just a few clues). The introduction of expansion components that propel it into absurdity just compounds the issue.

I maintain that its effect should be based on the number of successes rolled.

The insanity issue was mentioned in the Dread Curse thread, but I can't remember for sure where I heard that spells still take effect.

I've gotten this spell a few times but never used it. Just feed it to Rat Things but I guess if I had it and and Crystals I would try.

jgt7771 said:

Retracted. Thanks for doing the legwork, dkw.

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=5&efcid=1&efidt=91112

dkw said:

kroen said:

jhaelen said:

There's only one spell with sanity cost X, the one we're discussing. No reason to alter two cards for one card.

Well wait a minute there.

A spell from CotDP allows you to make the sanity cost whatever you want, gaining a +2 on a sneak check for each sanity you spend. You can then technically null it all with the Crystal of the Elder Things, and if you combine that with the Crowbar, you can draw the entire Commnon Item deck.

So I think that Call the Ancient One and Shroud of Shadow spells should limit their sanity costs to your current sanity, regardless of how much of that sanity cost you can prevent (Daisy, Hsan, Crystal).

Tibs said:

Heh... Didn't know about the shroud of shadow combo. Perhaps Crystal of the Elder Things should just be capped at four sanity prevention or something.

Shroud of Shadow you cast and discard Sanity...not pay so no Crystals for you.

also use Crystals like this you can't cast the spell unless you would have the Sanity to pay for it ie no Dread Curse at two Sanity or Call Ancient One for 13 unless you would have the 13 Sanity to pay.

MrsGamura said:

The phrase "Special" in the sanity cost box seems to imply that the sanity you spend towards Shroud of Shadow is the sanity cost. This makes it absolutely valid for reduction by the Crystal. To agree with your proposal, the spell would have said 0 sanity.

As for your second proposal--that spells can't be cast unless you have at least as much sanity as its casting cost (regardless of how much cost you can reduce)--I do not believe that that is an official rule. However, I am prepared to play it that way, as it appears to fix the problems with Call Ancient One and Shroud of Shadow well enough for me.

So then, it would be possible for a character to cast either spell with a modifier up to 9. That's a lot, but it would require a lot of special posessions to pull off, and it's much lower than infinity.

Hmm... I'm confused now...

On p. 16m in the Arkham Horror Manual, under Casting Spells: "To cast a spell, an investigator must pay its Sanity cost and then pass a Spell check."

noth1ng said:

Errating the crystal to only allow sanity that you have isn't very smart. Imagine you have 1 sanity and you want to cast Dread Curse. What, crystal won't help you? I think the best way to errata it is to cap the sanity at 2, as every spell that requires more than 2 sanity is a potentially abuseable spell. Best errata would be "Put a Sanity token on Crystal to avoid paying 2 Sanity when casting a spell". That way, the most sanity you could avoid paying is 3 if you also have the books of hsan (4 if you're daisy).

Back to the original question. It's a great combo and I don't really see a problem with it. It does take some work to get everything together. What AH lacks is more paths to victory. On the other hand, I don't really think FFG thought of this combo when they devised the spell and the Crystal of the elder things. Still it's far from a first turn victory.