For the sake of game balance, I hope the Lambda's maneuver dial is very limited, perhaps even with no K-turns. Because it occurred to me that for 27 points, one could have either an Outer Rim Smuggler, for example, or Captain Kagi. If their maneuvering is similar, then there's really no contest. Kagi (in the Lambda) has one more attack die, a much higher pilot skill, is more upgradable, and can take the same number of hits only with one more shield point than the Smuggler, meaning fewer crits for Kagi.

Hopefully FFG is designing the Lambda with an eye toward balance and will make it a bulky, cumbersome shuttle in need of a fighter escort, as it's depicted in Star Wars. Otherwise, there won't be much reason to field anything else. Your thoughts?

except…..the empire can't take an Outter Rim Smuggler.

vyrago said:

Exactly. Which is why it's important that they be balanced, since they might face off against each other.

I'm inclined to disagree. The counterpart to Captain Kagi isnt the smuggler, it would likely be Jan Ors.

Kagi: Pilot 8 3 atk, 1 def, 5 hull, 5 shields. upgrades: sensor, cannon, crew, crew 27 pts

Jan Ors: Pilot 8, 1 atk, 2 def, 4 hull, 1 shield. upgrades: Elite, Turret, Crew 25 pts

so you might say thats not a fair match-up either. Kagi has a total of 14 dice, while Ors has only 8. But as you said, we don't know what the manuever dial looks like yet. We have seen that every ship can do K-turns, but maybe like the Y-wing even certain turns and straights are red maneuvers. I would imagine the HWK-290 to be more manueverable. With attack value of only 1, the HWK really relies on a turret upgrade, most likley the Blaster Turret for 4 points. Giving the HWK-290 3 attack dice in a 360 arc.

It occurred to me that Outer Rim Smuggler also has a 360 degree firing arc, while the Lambda does not. I suppose this goes some distance toward balancing them out. I'm still hoping for an unmaneuverable Lambda, though, maybe even with no K-turns. Otherwise I can easily foresee tournaments where no one fields anything but four Lambdas.

IMO the ORS is overpriced. The loss of main cannon attack strength is huge.

Honestly, I think the Lambda shuttle *might* be undercosted. At least it is one of my concerns. Personally, I would compare it to the 'standard', which is an X-Wing.

Kagi: Pilot 8 3 atk, 1 def, 5 hull, 5 shields. upgrades: sensor, cannon, crew, crew + special ability 27 pts

Lets take an X-wing … say Garven.

Garven: Pilot 6, 3 atk, 2 def, 3 hull, 2 shields. Upgrades: droid, torpedo + special ability 26 points

Kagi has 1 less defense … but +2 hull, +3 shields, plus 2 more pilot skill. For a measly 1 point increase.

Luke is 28 points, so actually costs MORE for 2 less hull and 3 fewer shields and the same skill. Granted, Luke has the option for an Elite talent .. but taking any of those already cost points so it would be hard to justify his base cost being higher just form having the slot.

See my point?

Simple looks at formulas indicates that +1 pilot skill is (roughly) +1 points.

A Red squadron X-Wing costs 23 points for skill 4. So, that's about +4 points to match skill 8 (to match Kagi), bringing a generic X-wing to skill 8 and 27 points costs… exactly that of Kagi. Again, X-wing has +1 defense, Kagi has +2 hull, +3 shields, and a special ability.

It just doesn't look quite balanced. Kagi looks to be overall BETTER than Luke, yet costs less (un-upgraded). That's why it is important that the maneuver dial be significantly worse than an X-Wings.

What, so when you're comparing an X-wing and a Lambda the size difference doesnt matter? Are you saying that a big ship which will bump far more often should be considered the exact same (cost-wise) as a ship a quarter of the size, not to mention it's far easier to target and shoot. Elite Talent's should undoubtedly cost more point also, because you can then give your ship an edge, whether or not it costs more - an upgrade is exactly that: an up-grade, it gets better.

It's true though, maneuver dials matter alot, but don't forget that size matters as well in the costing, and firing arcs, and available upgrades etc. It's not as simple as people try to make it (i.e. hull/shield/attack/agility)…that's only a part of the story. It gives a Very basic look at cost, but by no means an accurate look.

I was just discussing a 3 named/4 unnamed lambda list with a friend earlier. Definitely seems like something worth considering.

Breaking The Law said:

That's what worries me, not only for the sake of game balance but because the Star Wars nerd in me always imagined the Lambda as a shuttle that benefited from a starfighter escort. But in this game, it's looking to be more of a gunboat, with little need of support.

Like has been pointed out, we havent seen the manuever dial yet. Maybe it can't k-turn? maybe all of its turns (not banks) are red? maybe it has only 1 green manuever? maybe its max speed is 3? and maybe thats red too!! It wont be a very good gunboat if it handles like a pig.

i think i'm ok with the point cost, as long as it's manueverability is reduced. if you wanted to load this up with all of the extras to make it more sustainable in a match that's on you i suppose, but i gotta believe that it's ability to navigate should be "clunky" at best. It's a shuttle, not exactly meant for combat.

Probably has good forward movement (up to 4 i would imagine), white banks and red turns with no k turn.

I'd be ok with that.

I'm looking forward to adding Anti Pursuit Lasers to my Outer Rim Smuggler. I think it is going to be a really effective tool for them, especially running two.

Keoki said:

Actually, I guess I had the Lambda wrong in my imagination. According to The New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, "the Lambda shuttle is so well armed that it is quite capable of traversing the galaxy without an official escort…" Looks like FFG did their homework!

Keoki said:

Well that certainly ruins my previous comment of, " It's a shuttle, not exactly meant for combat. "

I don't see what everyone is so worried about. First off Shuttles are anything but gunboats. With only a cannon as a secondary weapon choice they hardly have a huge reserve of weapons to draw from. The Firespray is far better equipped to be called a gunboat. Their stats to me are exactly what they should be. Don't forget that 1 agility is terrible and being a big ship means they are easier to hit. I'm personally not worried about 4 lamba's on the field. Maneuvering that many big ships will be difficult, especially considering that they don't have 360 fire arc.

Also remember that you can't really compare ships in a vaccum in this game. The lambda's are far from overpowering and concentrated fire will bring them down just as fast as any other ship with 1 agility.

I think we will see that the Lamba's will excel at what FFG designed them to be, support ships, something the Empire desparately needs as until now virtually none of their ships provide a synergy with other ships.

Even as a fanatically devoted Imperial player, I'd prefer a YT-1300 over a Lambda any day!

That 360 degree arc of fire is just simply too amazing - you never have to worry about ships being able to shoot you but you not being able to shoot back because of the firing arc.

I'm still desperately hoping for an Imperial version of the YT-1300!

The Rebels now have three ships capable of 360 degree fire with the Y-Wing, YT-1300, and now the HWK. The Imperials have none!

Keoki said:

I think, if it maneuvers poorly, a squadron of lambdas is going to hit hard on the first pass and be able to do basically nothing after that. Assuming its fairly slow and cumbersome, fighters can get behind it and will be hard to shake. I think that, at worse, itll be as powerful as a firespray/han shoots first list, which is to say it wont upset the game balance.